Education Portfolio Town Hall - 28.10.19

[Start transcript]

[Belinda Tynan]

Wominjeka everybody. It's lovely to see you all here today. And so many of us and this is-- I think it's our last town hall for the year. So, it's especially a great day too, because we're going to be doing something a little bit different today.

But before I start, we always start our meetings with an acknowledgement to Country. And I'd like to do that today. But before I do that, I thought you might like to do something to be part of this too. We all know the words-- well, most of us know the words that we now have to say. So, instead of me standing here and saying an acknowledgement on our behalf, what I'd like you to do is to turn to somebody next to you and practice saying the acknowledgement and see if you can put that in your own words. So, if you are on-- you are on the front row on your own, you might want to turn around to someone. But could you please now take the opportunity to turn to someone next to you and provide your own acknowledgement to Country.

[Background conversations] * 0:01:21.0- 0:02:44.1.

[Belinda Tynan]

It's one thing to hear another person say it and be in that moment. It's another thing to actually personally vest yourself in what it means and what our relationship to Country actually is. And being able to say that to another person and to practice that is, it should be, a really important part of how we continue our journey over reconciliation. And how many of you have done the credential, the Bundyi Girri credential now? So many of you. So, you would have written your acknowledgements. I do hope, as you start your meetings and as you begin to play out what your relationship is with Country, that you would use your own acknowledgements and share your own stories. So, with that in mind, we acknowledge the Boon wurrung and Woi wurrung people of the eastern Kulin Nations and the unceded lands which today we hold our meeting on. And our Elders, past, present and future.

So, lots of things have happened in the past few weeks. Now, what do you reckon is number one on my mind at the moment? What was announced last week? Yeah, I heard someone whisper it there. The Vocational Education College, of course. We are moving to a new Vocational Education College, which is going to be absolutely amazing. We're going to set that up for success by drawing upon our vocational education community and lead ourselves out, as we already do now, in vocational education and become even more recognised than we currently are.

I'm so proud of what we do in vocational education. I'm really proud of how we link to industry. And even more proud that we have really high retention rates with our students as well. Especially, compared to other parts of the country. By bringing a college together-- oh, I'm loud. By bringing a college together like this and aligning everyone, it means that we can be more efficient in our responses in how we do things. And all of you will know that we've had a really tough year in VocEd. It's been really hard for our teachers. It's been really hard for anybody who has got anything to do with college-- with quality. Anybody who's got anything to do with the systems or processes or any of the IT stuff that supports it. So, I mean, thank you to everyone who gets behind it and is helping us, you know, do what we need to do at the moment.

But moving forward, I think we have great opportunities now to sort of think about how we can do those things differently and how we can do those things together. Our portfolio is taking the absolute leading role in this and I'm so delighted to see that. Tomorrow, we will be making an announcement, which I'm very excited about, about a new Pro Vice-Chancellor in Vocational Education, who will sit on the Vice-Chancellor's executive, but will be very firmly attached to this portfolio as they build out what that new college looks like.

So, for the moment, not a lot of things are going to change. It's going to be very much what we're doing now as we think through what a new college might look like and how we might behave and how it might be at RMIT. Someone said to me early on that, oh, this is really our foundation college. And I said, what do you mean by that? They said, well actually, RMIT started really as a Vocational Education College. The workingman's college 132 years ago. We were training stenographers, radio operators. We were already a foundation college. But along the way, we've lost a little bit of that identity. So now, we're going back to that. So, you might start hearing me say, we are building our foundation college. It's a rebirth, it's a renaissance of what vocational education will mean for RMIT. So, that was one of the really big pieces of-- big news last week.

And another bit of news that kind of slid in that some of you will know about. Is that we've got some new members of the portfolio. So, I don't know if they are here. I probably am going to embarrass you just a tad. But if I could possibly have the Global Experience team. Are you all here? Would you mind standing up for me? Yeah, I know, you didn't want to be embarrassed really. But this is the new-- this is the Global Experience team. They are the most amazing team, I think, that I've sort of had the pleasure of getting to know in recent months. And they have got this amazing figure that in 2018 alone, more than 9000 students have participated in global experiences. It's just extraordinary. And that's only a small part of what you are all doing. We are so happy that you have decided to join the education portfolio, because you are going to make us look even better than we actually look now. So, could everyone, could you give them a big round of applause?

[Applause] *0:07:20.4.

[Belinda Tynan]

You can sit down now. So, welcome to Sam and everybody. And I know you are going to be working with Dean and you've joined the big students group now. It's going to be fantastic to hear more about what you do. And I hope as you sort of roll into the portfolio, ask lots of questions, that you feel like you are part of us and what we are doing. And you get an identity that sits comfortably with you. I'm really excited about sort of activating NAS and getting you a bit more profile in there as well. So, don't hesitate to reach out at any time. And welcome to the group.

So, this is a little bit different this town hall today, because we've previously had lots of student panels and we've talked to students and we can see what our students want from us. But we haven't yet had the privilege of talking with some of our teaching and our academic staff. As so, today, I've got four people that are going to be in conversation with us here in Melbourne. And I've also got a teacher on the line in Vietnam as well, who is listening to everything that we're doing. We are also streaming for the very first time to Vietnam, to our education portfolio colleagues up there. And, I think, we've got about 30 people that are listening and watching all of us now as well.

So, in a moment, I'm going to get my fabulous teachers who are here to come up on the stage. But before we do that, what I'd like to do is to show you a film. Now, this is a film that we've been making all year. And it's a bit of a life journey film, which looks at the Associate Degree in Fashion. But gives you a perspective from the teacher's point of view. So, sit back, take a breath, I wish I had some popcorn for you, Because I think this is an award-winning documentary. So, let's press play and let's have a look at what our teachers are doing in the Associate Degree.

[Video playback starts]

[Music]

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

So, the capstone project is something that happens in fourth semester. So, students work towards-- and teachers work towards getting students ready for the capstone project. And it's a new industry partner every time. So, there's a lot of pressure on staff to source new partners.

[Maria Von Horn]

There's basically three courses in the whole capstone. So, each course has different requirements. But, at the end of the day, what they really have to do, is they work in a group from the beginning to the end. They've got to do a whole collection for an industry partner. And they also do a digital presentation of a sustainable supply chain, as if they were going to produce that collection in a work-simulated environment.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

Basically, it's the icing on the cake. It's where everything comes together, and I think it's fantastic from an industry point of view, which is obviously my background, that it is exactly like a day in the office when they come in from the start to the finish.

[Julie Wood]

There's a lot of things that they learn from the whole capstone project. It's not only just being able to develop a range, it's working in a team. It's being resilient, it's being assistant in their task. I think, in the end, they are work ready.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

Radical Yes was a bit radical for us as a program. We'd only ever worked with apparel companies before that had brands that made garments. And each semester needs a new partner and we were a little bit desperate. We didn't have anyone to work with. And Kerryn had wanted to work with us. And the proposal had come across my desk already and I'd sort of pushed it away. I knew as soon as I met with Karen that it would be a good fit.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

When Radical Yes was first chosen, there was a mixture of emotion. Obviously, one, because they didn't actually have a range.

[Abigail McCartney]

It actually was, creatively, it was a blank canvas to work on. You know, you did have the heads up, because you had the issues as a starting point. But then, it's like, what is the complete outfit? The outcome was that they probably broadened their horizons and were more creative, I think, because of that.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

We actually start off with a mood board presentation for the students, which actually tells them exactly what we are looking for in a mood board.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

Just to define really clearly for you guys who we are and what we do. So, Radical Yes is a footwear brand for modern women. We only make flat shoes and we only make shoes for women. My background, obviously, you know, I spent many years in fashion. But I also took a sabbatical in 2011 to become a yoga teacher. Because I was really tired. Because fashion is hard. [Laughing].

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

When I first asked Kerryn to be part of it, I gave her the previous partners we'd worked with Cotton On and with Adidas. And they had presented in the brief to students in a slightly different way to each other. And so, Kerryn had a little bit of freedom in terms of how she wanted to do it.

So, she came up with two customer profiles. She had a selection of shoes that were the new range that she was wanting students to create garments around. She had colour pallets that she was suggesting. She knew her customer very well, so she was able to share that with the students from the beginning. Not all our industry partners do that. We were very lucky.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

So excited. I can't wait, I can't wait to see what you put together.

[Applause]

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

So, although you're important as individuals, and we recognise that, your focus for the next 16 weeks will be around working as part of a group. And you don't get to choose who you work with. So, just like in industry, when you get put into a particular department, you don't get to choose who you sit next to or who you might have to work with offshore. You have to just work out a way to be part of a collective group.

[Female 1]

No peeking. You're going to take a number and will get people in group one to line up in one section and group two and group three. Six groups. So, we're going to have six groups.

[Abigail McCartney]

So, the actual distributing the students into groups is literally numbers out of a hat. It's done completely randomly, because that's the most successful way it can work. They've tried different methods. At the end of the day, when you go and you start in a workplace, you don't usually know those people you are going to be working with. You will be put with people you don't know, and you don't particularly like, but you've got to get on with it. And that's the wonderful thing about this capstone. You know, putting the students into groups like this. It's that they learn so many skills.

[Female 1]

These are your teams for the rest of the semester.

[Applause]

[Female 1]

Look at all the smiling faces.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

Then they basically go away, they find images, they spend the afternoon in the library. They spend-- they look up colours.

[Maria Von Horn]

They sit in groups all the time from basically week one. And that's the way they come into the classroom and that's the way they work. Every week, we have a group meeting with the teacher. So, it's one-on-one with each group. And then, we really go and we ask every student how they are tracking. We check their timelines. Just to make sure that the ones that are struggling aren't letting the team down.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

So, the first big hurdle, I guess, for the students is week four. And that is when the students do a full-on presentation to the industry partner, which involves presenting a storyboard. Presenting their actual illustrations, colour illustrations of all their sketches. They are required to give all their swatches of their fabrics and their fabric details, their trims. So, they really have to envision that whole collection within four weeks, basically.

[Female 2]

To the right, you can see we have an ankle-length dress. That has a sunray pleat that you can see-- that you will see throughout our designs as we have incorporated the pleating in a lot of designs.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

So, the way that I normally edit things when I'm doing a range, is I go first for exactly what I definitely don't like. As you can see, it's much easier just cull and go. So, when I say, "I don't like" what I-- I would rephrase that and just say, "things that I don't feel are on brand". And it's not that the garments themselves don't have merit, it's just that they are not on brand for the way I see it.

Okay. Again, bell sleeves, not very functional. You know, they kind of get in your way when you're doing stuff. Um. I like this. I really like this in this page, in this group. That's probably as flourished as I would get within a collection. I think, this is a little questionable.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

After the presentation on the day, we decided to do things a little bit differently and we had a major debrief in the afternoon. We called on some extra staff, because we knew it was going to be a bit tough.

Well that's a day in the life of the industry, isn't it, really? So, we will we work your hero piece. So, will actually work on hero pieces today, to make sure you are all happy with an updated hero piece today.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

There were a couple of teams that had pretty awful feedback that took it personally. They were kind of at that point where they were going to fall off the edge and we couldn't let that happen. The teachers had already spoken to the students and they were desperately disappointed. And they were mainly disappointed around their hero piece. So, they needed strategies to kind of move beyond that. And to know that they weren't being judged personally, it's just that the design that they created didn't fit the brain. You've got to rework it to fit the brief and to meet the needs of the client.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

All the teachers work hand in hand. We are talking to each other all the time in the staff room about specific students and specific teams and it really is a great, great environment.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

From that week four, then there is this mad rush to start patterning and creating and twirling and refining and redesigning and, you know, sourcing the right types of fabrics to make those designs work.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

There's always major problems. There's always something that happens, just due to the time. Everyone is rushing. We had a few holes in garments created from over locking off too fast. We had a lot of fun picking to do towards the end. And we had a few tears.

[Goldie]

Oh my gosh. [Laughing].

[Kerryn Coughlin]

Zip, zip, zip. Stand still. It's not that funny. It's not that bad. It's not that bad to re-zip it. She's not really cry-- oh, Goldie, it's fine. Don't worry, don't-- stress less.

Obviously, students are at such a high stress level that, you know, things just go wrong, unfortunately. But that's the industry too. It happens all around.

[Julie Wood]

And, I guess, it's just ensuring them that there is always a solution. And it's helping them work through that solution and helping them understand that you can unpick. You can cut another panel for that garment. One student who did have quite a, I guess, complex garment and she was losing hope. And I just said to her, look, just keep on going, don't think about it.

[inaudible] *0:19:26.1.

This pleating was pleaded a little bit differently to the first sample. And because it's very expensive to get fabric pleated, where just advising her to just basically stitch the second piece of pleading into her final.

In the end, she did an amazing job. It was her hero piece, of course. But it looked amazing in the range and, you know, I think some of those garments at the end, I just look at them and think, I would read that. Do you want to sell that to me?

That's good now Holly.

[Holly]

It's a lot better.

[Julie Wood]

Are you okay?

[Holly]

Yeah.

[Julie Wood]

Come on, let's go and stitch this up. You're tired, aren't you?

[Kerryn Coughlin]

Julie is fantastic. She's been the rock of the course. She-- I think, we have very, very different skills. And, I think, the students are really lucky that they've managed to get a team where I'm more designed, she is definitely construction, pattern. And finish, especially. She was wanting the best finish for all the students, which was awesome.

It really starts to get hectic for students once they've handed in their hero piece. So, after week eight. Then they need to consolidate back as a team again and start designing or finishing the design of their range in a coordinated collection.

[Abigail McCartney]

It's important to have checkpoints, because if you leave them-- you know, if you give them a brief and then you let them just run wild, that's why we have weekly meetings. You know, we see, we look at their critical path, their time schedule. You see where they are at, you see where they are falling behind and just keep on track. And it's not-- we're not trying to baby, mother them, we are trying to just keep them on track.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

So, the final morning of the presentation was quite stressful. And we as teachers have butterflies as well, because same thing as the original presentation. We don't get to see everything totally finished.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

I was very nervous, yeah. I was nervous for the staff as well, because it's a reflection on their work too. And I was nervous on the students. But I was also just very excited, because it is just such a celebration of creativity and that's just-- you know, that's everything to me.

[Female 3]

[inaudible] *0:22:12.0. It's all the greens, isn't it? The green pants and the denim pants-- [inaudible] *0:22:18.8.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

So, either put it-- if it's got a size 10 loop, pop it through the loop to make it neater and then knotted. Otherwise, you will have to use a safety pin.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

The capstone teaching team have to allocate tasks at the meeting, in terms of we need to book a room for the exhibition, which is usually the Hangar. We have to organise mannequins and racks to be delivered to the space. And then, we have to invite industry participants. People that we've worked with before. We also try to invite the industry partners that we are planning to work with for the next semester. And all of their friends and families and other people across the wider University.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

For me, it's the most exciting thing is seeing their look books at the end, where it's all come together. Everything is mixing and matching. Even though we take them through a photo shoot and what to expect, they just have a ball on that day, where they can actually see their range come together and go, wow, you know, we did it, we did it.

[Female 4]

This is another one of our [inaudible] *0:23:28.8 pieces. Very fun to sow and it's stitched.

[Female 5]

And it matches the jeans, if someone wants to go for the double denim look, if they're feeling like it.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

Yeah, definitely looks like you've all spoken the same language.

[Leo]

Unless one person stayed up and did all the work, it looks very cohesive.

[Female 5]

I don't think that's possible with this many garments.

[Leo]

Absolutely.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

Kerryn and Leo were actually quite emotional. Because they just didn't know which team to choose. Leo has got a very marketing background and he disagreed with her and her choice. And then, they went away, and I said, "look, I need to know who you've chosen in a couple of hours. So, by 3 o'clock, I need an answer". And she came back and she said, "we just can't choose. It's this one or this one". And that's, you know, that's when it had to come back to us in terms of, well, which one met the brief?

In terms of garments to have in the store, they would probably be our pick. Shall we call group six the winner?

[Abigail McCartney]

And that's what Kerryn-- you know, how she chose the winning collection. Because she said that range was ready to go into her store. She saw it as a mini range, ready to go.

[Maria Von Horn]

I loved all the pleating and they had a good eye for proportions. I did notice that when I was checking the hero pieces. They were really thought out, even up to the size of the buttons and the depth of the pleats.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

The growth that students go through, and many of them come in without sowing knowledge. Certainly, without pattern making knowledge. And more often than not, don't know how to present, don't know how to work together as a team. Don't know how to design. Don't know anything about fibres and fabrics. By the end of it, they've created this mini collection.

[Kerryn Coughlin]

So, after the presentation, we have a bit of a break. And, um, then the students basically go into full pop-up store mode, which is awesome. So, this is where they set out their ranges. They dress a manne or two, and they basically set it up like a store. So, they merchandise their garments. They have a space where they can show their look book, their range boards, which is all their sketches in colour. And you can see the whole thing basically come together, which is a really great moment. It's just fantastic for everyone. And, I think, even they are surprised at that. I think, they really-- that's the moment where they sit back and go, wow, we did it.

[Abigail McCartney]

When you are walking around that final exhibition, the start of it, Kerryn came on and she actually-- you know, she was so overwhelmed in her speech that she was brought to tears. So, that was the beginning part of it that just resonated with me. And I was like, this is an emotional journey for everybody.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

So, I'm so grateful for all the work-- I'm going to cry. But really, I've been very overwhelmed with your creativity and the privilege to be working on this project. It's been really wonderful, so thank you.

[Applause]

[Abigail McCartney]

They really are proud of what they've achieved. So, there's a sense of achievement there and pride that you can see when you are-- you know, when you are walking around. And that you can sense.

[Deborah Wills-Ives]

The thing that has supported our program for the last couple of years is having RMIT Studios capture the images. So, being able to have that visual imagery at the end, that's how we build our open day displays. That is how we build our window displays. That's how we put images into the RMIT catalogue to show what our students can do. Because at the end of the day, that is what applicants are looking for. Applicants want to be able to come into the classroom and see what they are likely to be able to do at the end of a two-year program.

We could not have asked for a better partner. And I'm a bit embarrassed to say, that we pushed it aside, because it wasn't apparel. But after the success of the project, I can see us working with, you know, bag companies, luggage companies. A whole lot of other-- homewares companies that we interpret their brief in a fashion product. Because it's a perfect opportunity to tell-- you know, shout from the rooftops of what we can do in a fairly short-- in a two-year Associate Degree program. To come out with that sort of end product is credit to the program and to the staff that embrace it. And it is a lot of work, but it's so worth it.

[Kerryn Moscicki]

Feel free to start sharing your perspective through your creativity. Even if you are just a kid. If you are young, you see things differently than I do, and I want to know how you see things. We all want to know. When we look at your work, whatever your work may be, we want to feel your youth. That fresh a sense of your arrival here. Be generous with us and let us feel it. After all, for many of us, it has been so long since we stood where you now stand.

[Video playback ends]

[Applause] *0:28:25.5.

[Belinda Tynan]

It's really incredible, isn't it, to see that. And if you think about it from a teacher's perspective, right from the very moment when they are trying to design the curriculum and make sure they've got a partner, all the way through to, you know, you saw them there. Sometimes they are playing mum. Sometimes they are playing counsellor. Sometimes they are playing trusted advisor. Sometimes they are teaching. They are doing a whole multiple range of things that are quite complex and are just in the moment. It's not like you step into a classroom and sort of say, I need to be compassionate today or I need to be a mentor today or a teacher or I need to be a counsellor. It kind of just happens when you are in that moment. It is very, very special.

But you can also see the impact that it clearly has on the students. And from that very first day when they selected what groups they were going into, right to that fabulous picture at the end when they are all together and lining up and sitting on top of each other. And it's just gorgeous, isn't it? It's so lovely to see that. But, I think, the thing that amazes me the most is to think that those students in-- what is it? 14 weeks. Is it 14 weeks? In 14 weeks, they go from, they can't sow, they can't cut patterns to producing a collection and putting it in front of a client. I mean, that's extraordinary. And for the teachers to sort of feel so much pride in that and we saw that in terms of the way they support the students to get there as well. It's an incredible journey.

But it's a fantastic reminder for all of us that that is what we are supporting. That is what this portfolio is supporting when these teachers go out there and sit in those classrooms and in front of our students. And, I think, they are probably very grateful that you are there for them. You don't often get a peek inside those classrooms. So, hopefully, that was a little peek inside a classroom. And there's lots that we could digests there.

So, I'm going to invite my panel guests to come up. And first up-- and you can all come up as I read your names would be lovely. Dr Meg Elkins. And she comes from the College of Business. And some of you might know Meg, so give make a round of applause [inaudible] *0:30:38.3.

[Applause] *0:30:38.4.

[Belinda Tynan]

Dr Ricarda Bigolin. She's from the Associate Dean, Fashion and Textiles Design. And that was the first time she saw that film. So, I hope you still feel proud of all that, that's fantastic. Let's give Ricarda a big round of applause.

[Applause] * 0:30:53.9.

[Belinda Tynan]

Maurice Sherman, he is one of our very successful teachers in the School of Vocational Business Education. Please welcome Maurice.

[Applause] *0:31:03.7.

[Belinda Tynan]

Oh, is it? Got the name completely wrong, people. Faux pas. It's Sheridan.

[Maurice Sheridan]

I'm a Sheridan.

[Belinda Tynan]

Are you a Sheridan?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Thank you.

[Belinda Tynan]

I'm really sorry about that. And not least at all, because we have sorted our-- we've still got-- I feel totally thrilled now. It's Maurice Sheridan. Alright, so Dr Sam Grover. She is a lecturer in Environmental Chemistry and a soil scientist. She is also-- [audience laughing]. Have I got that right? Have I still got it wrong? Oh, this is our person from Vietnam. Yeah, okay, good. Okay, so come on stage. Let's give Sam a round of applause.

[Applause] * 0:31:48.8.

[Belinda Tynan]

And Skyping in from RMIT Vietnam, we should have Lam Hong Lan. She is one of our associate lecturers and competition designers in the School of Communication and Design. And hopefully, she will be turning up shortly or can or can't hear us. But the team here will sort that out shortly too.

Right, so I'm going to move onto the couch. And we can start our conversation. Okay. Okay, I'm going to start with Ricarda, because that was the first time you saw the video.

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

Yep.

[Belinda Tynan]

What did you think of that?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

I thought it was amazing, actually. I thought it was an amazing video that captures a lot of what we do in the School of Fashion and Textiles and in DSC with like the focus on authentic assessments and partnered projects. It happens across what we do. I feel it really works with our disciplines. To work with industry like that and the formats of industry coming into our classrooms. It's something that I see around with stuff that I've done that I was super proud, because it's real and it definitely connects students with graduate outcomes. They are living it, they are breathing it and they are working towards-- they realised that we weren't making stuff up, which is the biggest realisation. So, you just get that, oh wow, it's like what you were saying. That they live it and it's really embodied learning in like the studio pedagogy that is definitely what we do in our school. So, I was super proud.

[Belinda Tynan]

You should be, I think it's a fantastic. Now, what lead you into teaching in the first place?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

For me, I was really interested in teaching. I was working as a designer. But I just really had some bigger questions. I was interested in challenging the status quo and a deeper sense of sharing knowledge. I had big questions about things that was going on in industry and I thought, I really want to actually learn more. And then, I started a PhD, and then started sessional teaching. After I finished sessional teaching, became a lecturer. Then a senior lecturer. And a program manager, and now Associate Dean.

[Belinda Tynan]

And Maurice, what about you? What led you into teaching?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Oh, I got-- I came into teaching because I wanted to get away from a computer screen. I left-- I left-- I worked in a corporate world for 16 years and I got sick of sitting behind the screen, crunching numbers, sending emails to the guy who just sat over there, you know. And I thought to myself, I want to get out of this. I want to try and experience something new. And I found teaching by accident. And I got a couple of hours work here at RMIT. I think it was three hours a week, which next semester led to a few more hours and then a full-time role. And all the time that that was happening, I was still looking for that new career change. And you know, lo and behold, I got a little bit of recognition along the way and the students seem to like me and I thought to myself, could I do this for a little while longer? And I've been at RMIT 12 years now, so I love it.

[Belinda Tynan]

And I assume you are talking about Peter Ryan in the front row there. You were sending emails to.

[Maurice Sheridan]

No.

[Belinda Tynan]

Vocational education, he seems to get a lot of them. We talk about it as being the gift that keeps on giving.

[Maurice Sheridan]

Oh, okay.

[Belinda Tynan]

Does that make sense?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Yes.

[Belinda Tynan]

Now, Meg, what about you? What led you into teaching and what do you find rewarding about it?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

I fell into teaching. Everything I learned in my life, people asked me to teach it afterwards. So, I gave birth and they asked me to do [inaudible] *0:35:34.6. And I got asked to teach. Before I even finished my undergraduate degree, I got asked to teach. I think I'm just a curious person that is annoying and asks those questions that--

[Belinda Tynan]

So, what's rewarding about teaching?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

For me? Now in what I do, this is why we do that. I look up there and I see the growth personally and professionally in students. You give them challenges and you watch them rise. You know, anything-- when you do something that makes an extraordinary impact, there is eggs broken along the way. So, a lot of the is learning to deal with failure and being creative to get outcomes that they probably do expect for themselves. And then, you go on and I love my LinkedIn page, because I can follow my graduates and what they are doing now. And I see that they've gone on to achieve probably more than they ever expected for themselves. And I think that's the biggest reward is that loop of you plant a little seed and it becomes more than a reality.

[Belinda Tynan]

Hopefully. Actually, Samantha, why did you become a teacher? Or an educator, I guess, because you also have quite a strong research profile as well as part of your background.

[Dr Sam Grover]

Yeah, I mean that's definitely the answer. So, what drew me to teaching was research. So, I'm a soil scientist and I was doing soils research for a decade or so after my PhD. And then, I was lucky enough to be employed at RMIT in the environmental science space. And given all of these environmental science students to learn, to teach on.

[Belinda Tynan]

So, give us a fast fact about soils that we might not know about.

[Dr Sam Grover]

Soil is alive.

[Belinda Tynan]

Great, should we be pleased about that?

[Dr Sam Grover]

Yes.

[Belinda Tynan]

Or do we need to spray and wipe?

[Dr Sam Grover]

Oh, no. Soil is alive in a-- you know, super beneficial to humans way. I've only recently realised that many people think soil is inert. But actually, soil is like taking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, as well as growing food for us at the same time.

[Belinda Tynan]

Okay, so soil is good.

[Dr Sam Grover]

Soil is awesome.

[Belinda Tynan]

Soil is awesome.

[Dr Sam Grover]

And what I have found is that-- I teach a few different subjects at RMIT. One of them is called the Soil Environment. And I have managed to instil that love of soil in at least some of my students.

[Belinda Tynan]

Well, I think I was reading somewhere recently-- maybe it was a Conversation piece that we should be worried about our soil currently, because we are actually making dead soil and to make it live again, we have to add an awful lot to it. Is that correct?

[Dr Sam Grover]

Yeah, I think that would be a fair-- if it's in the Conversation, it must be true.

[Belinda Tynan]

Didn't you write it?

[Dr Sam Grover]

I think there's a lot of reason to be optimistic. There is a lot of soil degradation. But there's so many, I guess, RMIT has great interest in the urban space. And I am super excited about that, because here in the urban space we generate exactly what soils keep, which is food waste and compost. And I've even been talking with the people in Brunswick about composting the material-- you know, the scraps, the edges that don't go into those amazing collections and I want to come back to that.

[Belinda Tynan]

So, for the benefit of everybody here, if you haven't got your GoSoapBox happening, get your GoSoapBox happening, because we're going to take some questions soon. So, if you haven't got your device out, get it out, log into GoSoapBox and you should be able to put some questions in there. And I've got them here in front of me. And no one has asked a question yet, so please put one in there for us.

Now, I've got a whole bunch of questions here and I think one of my favourite ones is has there been an aha moment in your teaching experience? Who would like to take that one first? But has there been an aha moment?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

I've had one.

[Belinda Tynan]

Let's hear about yours.

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

I'll take that one. And it will sound-- my major aha moment was learning how to understand the CES and to use the CES. And I say that very sincerely. To spend time reading it and find ways to use it to really enhance the student experience. And then, take some things that pop up in that. Also, the graduate outcome survey and think, okay, there are people saying these stuff, should I then maybe just have some informal ways to talk to students about it and go, what do you think? I was thinking, like I read this in the comments, what do you think? And for me, it was to find many different ways to talk to students. From GoSoapBox like this to informal-- we have informal get-togethers, masterclasses where we really kind of try and understand their experience and putting myself in their shoes and think, what would I feel like if I was doing this course?

And a few years ago, I was like, actually, I'd be like, I want a little bit more. And then I was like, I better get them more. Like more industry, more connections. Not just me being interested in my research and sharing that with people, but just like how they're actually going to get out there. It's a huge question. It's really-- it makes them really anxious. So, that's been my number one focus since learning how to read and interpret all the different various forms such as CES, but all of them, I have to say. And that has been my aha moment, sincerely.

[Belinda Tynan]

That's really interesting. And I'm sure people who are here today who look after the CES will be very pleased to know that you actually have a look at it. Anyone else? An aha moment?

[Maurice Sheridan]

For me, is sort of came when I was doing my Diploma of Ed Practices and I was sort of still learning my trade of teaching. I knew my topic and it was accounting and finance. But I just didn't have that-- and the person who took me through my mentorship program said to me, look, you know your stuff really well, but just go and have a bit more fun in the classroom. I was being too serious. You must sit there, you must learn, you know. And I still had that attitude. And I thought, I teach accounting, how do you make accounting fun, you know?

[Belinda Tynan]

How do you make accounting fun?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Well, someone said to me, they said, why don't you put a bit of Steve Irwin into your presentations? And for those who don't know Steve Irwin, he was very, you know, a vibrant sort of character. And I thought, Steve Irwin in my presentation. So, I thought, I'll give this a go. As so, the next class I went into it I said, "check out this little cutie everyone, this is a balance sheet, but be careful with this, all you people at home, only handle this with experienced hands". And I sort of-- I lost a bit of the seriousness in myself and I looked around the classroom, like I'm looking around this room now and everyone is like, what's he going to do next? And I thought, if I can capture that-- if I can capture their attention like that with whatever it is that I'm doing, I have an ability to be able to teach them.

[Belinda Tynan]

That sounds like spreadsheets might be interesting.

[Maurice Sheridan]

Oh, they are great fun, they are.

[Belinda Tynan]

So, like I asked the question about tell me something that we wouldn't know about soil, tell me something about accounting that we would find absolutely exciting and amazing?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Oh-- [audience laughing]. Oh, look, the thing I guess the students have got to realise is, that when they go out into the real world of corporate, everything is assessed on the numbers. And, you know, if you've got a project or an idea, somebody is going to say, well look, when is our breakeven or when are we going to make-- you know, or what is our payback period? Things like that like how is it going to benefit the company, but really what's it going to cost us? And you might have a great idea, but it might cost too much and they have to shelve it and put it away to another time. And that's the sort of thing, I guess, unfortunate for us-- yeah, in big business, it's all assessed by the numbers.

[Belinda Tynan]

And that's the reality for us all at the moment around budgets. I know exactly where you are coming from.

Now, I'd like to turn to our colleague in Vietnam. I'm hoping that we can now connect with her. Is that possible?

[Male speaker]

We're still trying to connect.

[Belinda Tynan]

Oh, we're still trying to connect. Okay, well we will come-- when you feel that she is on the line, can you let me know? Yep, okay good. Now, I'm still waiting for some questions. So, let me go back and just make sure-- there's nothing in there yet. Somebody must have a question about fabulous teachers.

So, let me ask this question. I'd like you to tell us something about how you are particular innovative in your teaching and how the students responded to that? How about I start with you Sam? When were you-- you thought you were particularly innovative? And how did the students respond to it?

[Dr Sam Grover]

So, one of the things which is fundamental to soils physics is called bog density. So, this is the mass of soil in a set volume. It's pretty straightforward. But people seem confused about it. They seem to get it wrong quite a lot. And in my research, I want my colleagues to measure it really, really accurately. And so, with my research, I tried teaching people by doing the soil sampling in a cake.

[Belinda Tynan]

You mean to eat it?

[Dr Sam Grover]

Well, people were quite-- yeah, they could eat it, they could eat their soil sample afterwards. And it didn't matter if they made a mess. So, I took this into the classroom. I actually-- I don't know if I should be admitting this, because it was maybe a little bit crumby afterwards.

[Belinda Tynan]

Just close your ears at this point, Chris.

[Dr Sam Grover]

But I did do this in lecture theatre last year and in the tutorial rooms this year. And this year I even got the students to take a sample, a bog density soil sample in a chocolate mud cake.

[Belinda Tynan]

Was it delicious?

[Dr Sam Grover]

It was delicious. And as Maurice was saying, it was a bit of fun. And now, they all really know what bog density is.

[Belinda Tynan]

So, what do you think it was about that activity that helped them understand the concept? What was your technique in that?

[Dr Sam Grover]

So, I often try and relate the theory to something every day that people can relate to. And everyone can relate to cake and, in fact, having it there in front of you, you can do it yourself. So, it's trying to combine the theory with personal experience and the tactile lived experience. I mean, I've learned so much just from watching that short video and I'd love to learn more from other parts of RMIT, because in the sciences we often tend to teach things in quite a dry theoretical way.

[Belinda Tynan]

I think this is part of the opportunity though, to share and to look inside people's classrooms. And just recently we had a very successful learning and teaching conference, where staff get to do that. But I think you are right. I think, these kinds of moments give you that opportunity, don't they? We need to do more of that. What about you, Meg?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

In terms of innovation?

[Belinda Tynan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

I try to do something different every semester. Mostly to keep myself fresh and engaged. I think, that's probably the innovations is allowing to be informed by industry and what's happening. To complete-- to keep evolving.

[Belinda Tynan]

Is that because you teach the same subject year on year that you feel the need to do that?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

I think, because I teach innovation.

[Belinda Tynan]

That's your subject area, isn't it?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

Well, that economics-- you can't teach what you did the year before, because everything is so fast paced and fast moving. And the innovation is probably-- this semester I did something different and that was I engaged the APEC Global Study Centre and I love that. And we came up with a whole semester on project. And a whole semester was dedicated to digital-- or data privacy across international waters. And I found that fascinating. I now know-- use DuckDuckGo instead of Google. But I learned along with it. And I think that's the whole thing about teaching. You don't come into it with a complete set of I know the answers. I think what I love to do is facilitate on-site and go along with them and discover with them. And that may-- I don't know. When I started-- when I started I was very doing. I needed to know the answers. And now, I'm much more comfortable in not knowing the answers.

[Belinda Tynan]

Do you think there are probably stages that teachers go through?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

Yes.

[Belinda Tynan]

Or beginning teachers more [inaudible] *0:48:56.9.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

Yes.

[Belinda Tynan]

Than sort of [inaudible] *0:48:58.0.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

The first time I taught, somebody said to me, just keep two weeks ahead. And I was terrified. And the most terrifying thing was the last class, where the students can ask you anything from the whole semester. And I stood there, and I made sure I knew everything. And they asked me nothing. So, I learned from that, you don't have to know everything. And as you become more comfortable, you see yourself more as a guide then a know it all. And they-- the less that you present to your students as a know it all, the more they take some ownership as well.

[Belinda Tynan]

Well, I've got a pile of questions here from the audience. I'm going to get those coming through. But I also have a message to the audio tech. Are you ready, have you got it? So, the message is, a loud buzz coming from the central monitor, cheers. Thanks for the feedback. So, we have a whole bunch of questions here are now coming through. And you-- actually Meg, you it's a nice segue is the ones you just sort of answered in a way. What's one thing you've learned from your students and you were just nicely sort of saying you are learning all the time. Why don't I pass that question around the panel. What have you learned from your students?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

I think, it's the biggest-- the most important thing I've learned is the diversity of the student experience. Like it's so individual. For one student it's different. And that, for me, is really kind of at the core of definitely my teaching practice. But to ensure that you don't assume it's a one size fits all approach. And making sure in learning design that we really kind of support people to find their own ways and to have those own discoveries.

For myself, it's also in our discipline. A discipline that has very known, you know, glamorous sides in fashion design. That everyone assumes is our life. That we are just sipping champagne and having a great time on the Brunswick campus. Although, I'm based here too.

[Belinda Tynan]

Really, I thought that's what happened.

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

It's to ensure that people start to-- with me, it's also students understanding that they actually might go into very different areas of the industry. That is not about being the glamorous fashion designer. We have more and more students working in sustainability. We have more students asking massive questions about the ethics of the industry. And once I understood that not everyone was dreaming of being, you know, a famous fashion designer and that diversity piece related to their cultural background, I was pretty interested, yeah. It's a really important thing to learn.

[Maurice Sheridan]

Probably to be more approachable. So, when I first started I thought I had the knowledge, my ego was getting in the way a little bit too much and I sort of started embracing, okay, I need the students to approach me. Because they are not understanding things and I looked through the CES as well and it would say a couple of things. And I think, okay, how can I improve on that? And so, I started to develop techniques where I was very open to it. You know, we could talk about anything they wanted to talk about in order to build that bridge where if they ever had difficulty, they could come-- and I'm assuming it would be something about my topic, but I would allow it to be open to anything else. If they were having difficulty with another student in the class, they could approach me and say that in confidence. And so, I had to change the way I was looking at myself as well. So, I probably later little bit about myself.

[Belinda Tynan]

And Sam, for you, what do you learn from your students?

[Dr Sam Grover]

I got a fantastic tip last week about how to engage your students during a lecture. So, I kind of flipped some aspects of my teaching this semester. And I got students to research and then give a 15- or 20-minute presentation on an aspect of school physics or soil biology. And then, assess them on that. And also, on their engagement. So, we had little activities that we did afterwards where the rest of the class were discuss and they had to walk around.

But this last class, one of the groups did such a fantastic job. They obviously really work together well as a team. But in order to make sure the audience was paying attention, which you guys clearly are, because you've sent in all those questions, they came up with this bingo sheet. Where they put like a picture of a bog density ring or a man with a hat. They put all these different things that were in their PowerPoint presentation on their bingo slide. And they had a prize as well. They had a planned, so it fitted in nicely. And so, while they were talking, everyone was really paying attention and crossing off-- yeah, yeah. And then, some groups did win the bingo. Yep, but they kept going with the lecture. I said, thank you, I'm going to use that next year.

[Belinda Tynan]

Have we got our Vietnam colleague? We do, okay. So, I'm not sure if Lan has been able to hear everything. But we started our conversation on the couch. And what we like to ask you first of all is why did you become a teacher?

[Lam Hong Lan]

Good morning from Vietnam.

[Belinda Tynan]

It looks like we're going to have lots of feedback. Let's try one more time.

[Lam Hong Lan]

-- I hear an echo of myself. Is that better?

[Belinda Tynan]

Would you mind saying that again?

[Lam Hong Lan]

Good morning everyone.

[Belinda Tynan]

Because we lost you on the reverb, the echo.

[Lam Hong Lan]

Hello?

[Belinda Tynan]

Yes, if you can just say that again and why did you become a teacher, Lan?

[Lam Hong Lan]

Okay, this is a-- it's a bit of a long story. So, I start my-- I was supposed to be an English teacher 20 years ago. That's where I started, and I really like to try to somehow influence someone like to be a teacher. And then, the country changed a lot in terms of marketing and communications. And agency coming and they said, oh why don't you be working in the agency? So, I just feel like, wow, great, I just give it a pause here. I work in industry first and see what's it like and I go back later. So, 20 years later, I found my way back at RMIT as my very first university.

[Belinda Tynan]

Fantastic. Well, we really glad that you can Zoom in with us here. And we've got some questions that are coming through from the audience, so I'm going to continue to ask those. So, listen in and I'll come back to you in a moment. So, it looks like the number one question that is coming up on GoSoapBox really sits around how we work with our international students and probably some of our domestic students as well, when English language is not their first language. How do you manage that in the classroom, and especially in group work? Because we get a load of feedback around group work and how challenging they can be. And we've just seen that gorgeous film from your area. So, could you give us a little bit of insight about how you and your team kind of manage that?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

Definitely. I think, for us, because we are a visual discipline, we use visuals both as learning devices, but how students communicate and share. So, a lot of in our group work, if it's a group work that is working with an industry partner and project, such as the example that you saw, there is a lot of sharing of images as opposed to text or texting or emails. Students use like either group chats on Instagram or on different formats, different social media formats or online formats as well as Canvas, obviously, to really communicate and to get away with just not relying on language. And for us, that's part of our discipline. We have visuals in our discipline all the time. So, even when students present, we use video a lot. So, we have students that make a lot of short videos as opposed to verbal presentations. And we also have live sort of showing presentations where it's not just the experience of standing up at a lectern and speaking. So, it is using objects and garments to explain yourself. Using drawings. Using the space of our classrooms rather than just the sort of situation. [crosstalk] *0:57:48.7.

[Belinda Tynan]

I get quite concerned that we quite often land English words second language speakers into this bucket, they are almost not intelligent enough, because they can't communicate in a way we might expect. Now, College of Business, you've got a lot of second language speakers.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

I find this is a great-- this is something I'm researching at the moment. So, what I've done, I managed the economics and finance program. And I've actually looked at our GPAs and our numbers. And our domestic students actually do worse than our international students. And that really shocked me. It really shocked me. And I started to drill down into looking at what could be going on behind here. And once I disaggregated the non-English speaking background domestic students to the English-speaking domestic students, the gap between those two cohorts was 0.5. The GPA was 0.5.

So, to me, the problem-- international students are being very well resourced. The ones at the other end of the spectrum are actually the students that we're bringing in, the non-English speaking backgrounds is on the local domestic students. And you have to think about what could be the difference between international students and those that are non-English speaking backgrounds. Often, the international students are well resourced. They don't have to work as much. But those that are coming from lower social economic groups here are probably having to work in greater numbers. So, I think, there is probably more going on there. These are just mean GPAs. But in thinking about those international students that I adore here, so I actually experience what those students are feeling first-hand as well. And with group work, what we know is, it's not about the poorest performing students. It's actually about the best performing student. So, when you are doing group work, it's not-- in a way, what they are doing falls away, because what you want is the best performing student that determines the outcome of that group project. Not the lowest performing.

So, perhaps that's why my program that's very maths orientated. We've got a higher GPA. It might be unique to me. When I'm doing this, maybe [inaudible] *1:00:21.2 I'd like to maybe compare that to something with a high level of language like marketing, to see if the same GPA differences come out for our international students. It might be just the cohort experience of economics and finance.

[Belinda Tynan]

I think they're certainly a lot of myth busting. You know, we quite often point the finger at international students, and they are the problem and we prioritise them. In lots of ways, the language belongs equally to our domestic market, potentially. We have to be a little be careful about the assumptions we make at times has been my experience.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

[inaudible] *1:00:58.2 surprising to me was actually mind blowing. That-- and particularly when you come up with the Four Corners reports. You think that they are demonised. But when you actually look at the numbers, they are doing better. And what's interesting, is to see what language groups are doing better off across our program. So, don't despair with international students is what I say.

[Belinda Tynan]

They're doing okay?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

You know what mostly, and if they're not, they probably-- but this is looking at completion data. Not necessarily data early on. Maybe if they are not coping going along, then there is isolation and they are falling away.

[Belinda Tynan]

It's good that you are doing the research. Now, I'd like to get onto some questions that come from the portfolio about how this portfolio, and particularly our professional staff and support our teachers and academics. Given what you know about the portfolio, is there anything that any of you would say that you think you'd give advice to or request from the professional staff that are here today? I might start with you Sam.

[Dr Sam Grover]

Okay. Um, I feel a little bit sheepish, because I only arrived at RMIT last year and I don't have a good understanding of what everyone here is involved in. But I have been involved with the blended learning part this year. And in that-- through that, I've had some fantastic interactions with people who have helped me redesign my course, with people from the library who have helped me find fantastic online resources. And also, with-- I can't remember the name of the special area, but I saw it in the video, the podcast and filming studio who have helped me make some key concepts videos. Which some of my students have said have like contributed to changing their lives and helping them find direction and what they want to do. So, I am extremely grateful for the input that I've got from those parts of the University.

[Belinda Tynan]

What about from the associate degree area? Because some of that would-- you'd echo here as well, wouldn't you?

[Dr Ricarda Bigolin]

With the services? Yeah, definitely. And the sort of the documentation of the student-- of the studios. For me, one of the things that I've really noticed is the role of student well-being. That's one of the things that I've seen a really great shift in my time here at RMIT and the focus on that. And I want to say thank you as well for that. That's really been an amazing-- that's really shifted. Safer communities, all of that has been incredible. Our staff are like really noticing that difference and it's really helping students work differently in our classroom. But how we also work as teachers. So, for me, that's been a really major thing that I've noticed. Yep.

[Belinda Tynan]

And it's been a real strategic push of the University as well [inaudible] *1:04:10.1. What about you Maurice? What do you think the professional group can do to help support you?

[Maurice Sheridan]

Oh, for me it's the case of every now and then I find someone for tell me something and I go, oh, really? Is that what is going on? So, the support network is there, it's just I don't really know about all of it at the moment. Like I work close with the ADT in business, because there's a lot of stuff that they've got that I see utilised in my Canvas shells and stuff like that, and part of the education. I use a lot of video and stuff like that. And building that network or a sort of discovering a few things, or expanding the people that I meet, that they introduced me, oh, you know you are entitled to this or you know you can do this or you know you can get support for that? It's like, no, I didn't. And even if it was built into a website and said you were entitled to this, this and this, I still wouldn't know. Because it's one of those things like until I am talking about it or anything like that, is not going to be at the front of my mind.

[Belinda Tynan]

And almost in lots of ways with professional services, the sense that they want to blend in and just make it easy, so that everything happens. But, I guess, if we communicate a little bit better about what was on offer, that would actually be really helpful to you as well. What about you, Meg?

[Dr Meg Elkins]

I'm really thinking about this question. Career development learning in the classroom. This is what I would like you my program, because-- and at different points along the way, they need to know different elements. You know that graduate recruitment thing happens April in third-year, March in third-year. And often by the time they realise that it's too late. And it's building those portfolio skills along the way. If I could bring into my program the careers earlier, I know we are just starting to-- I don't know if we've got micro credential people in here? Are my micro credential people in here? Yeah, okay. So, we've just had to put 100 points in our program across the board and I think there's some really valuable things in that. But because they are only worth small amounts, I'm wondering if we could then follow that up to have career development learning in the classroom as well to talk about how we can-- because the reason why most of our students are here, is to get the job at the end. And assessment they care about while they are in the class, but as they go through their program, it's like, oh my God, how my going to get a job? So, if we can go, actually, this is how you can get a job and embed it in the classroom, that would be really exciting to me. So, can I put it out there if you are thinking about how we can--

[Belinda Tynan]

It sounds like a really great idea. And I think it's going to be one of the areas of investigation about how we embed careers education into the curriculum. So, I think you've just hit on something that we think is actually really important for our students. So, it's a good callout.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

And I know, my cohort, my small class is very small. But I want to know how to do that-- I can do that within my own group, but how I do that for the program?

[Belinda Tynan]

[inaudible] *1:07:36.2.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

Yes.

[Belinda Tynan]

Now, what we're going to say, Sam?

[Dr Sam Grover]

I wanted to come back to the point about well-being and the great work that has been done in that space. Because something that I really noticed is that anxiety is a huge issue affecting like every aspect of a lot of students. I was thinking about it when we were having the conversation about the international students. I've been talking a lot over the weekend with my partner about how we can better support the international students, and the domestic students as well around student's anxiety is preventing them from doing their best academically. And also, enjoying the experience of being here at RMIT.

[Belinda Tynan]

All good points from everyone here. I'm going to go back to Lan now and just-- I assume you've been following our conversation there. If the professional staff in the Vice President's portfolio could support you more, Lan, what would you like them to do?

[Lam Hong Lan]

I really much like the idea of the career embed orientation in class. The one that one of my colleagues just mentioned earlier. Because every new semester when I ask the very first week two student, why do you choose fashion and what are you going to do in your career? And very much like, oh, because I love fashion, because I find fashion very interesting, but I don't know what to do with in the future yet. So, a lot of quite big questions on what are you going to do later, but I love fashion but I will think about later on my career. So, if you can have some professional colleagues come in and give them some guidance in the career. You know, what choices they have. I think, that would be very helpful for students to start thinking about even in year one, not waiting to the end to decide what to do.

[Belinda Tynan]

It feels like this is a really topical area. And we were just discussing the other day about whether we are providing guidance for our students for what they want to do or rather the question is, what they want to be? Yeah, it's nice, isn't it? Actually, that came from Dean. That we need to maybe sort of just shift our thinking a little bit. And there's this fantastic program that comes out of Stanford University that's called, Design Your Life. And it sort of focuses on-- I think a combination of the do and the be. But it definitely starts with, how do we talk to someone, especially somebody in our program is around what their purpose is? I mean, many of you in this room probably could not answer that question yourself. I struggle. What is your purpose out in sort of like 30 to 60 seconds. But starting that point to help you think about, you know, what your future looks like.

So, we're coming to the end now. It's good though, isn't it? Do you want to do [crosstalk] *1:10:37.1.

[Dr Meg Elkins]

Because a lot of the success stories is when you get the recalcitrant student start going, "why the hell do I have to learn this"? And they are the ones that end up-- once they've decided why they learn it, they become the good advocates. And they often have life experiences that you can be really proud of.

[Belinda Tynan]

Well, I think you can thank Dean for the question. Maybe we'll put it in everyone's work plan meetings. What do you want to be? That will be the next question you all have to answer. So, look, I've still got a list of questions and there's loads of questions that have come through from the team, from the floor here. What I might do is all pass those questions back to you all and if you want to help us-- we usually and so the question is the best we can. If you wouldn't mind helping us do that, that would be great, and I'll send that back to everyone.

I know you are going to hang out with us for a little bit as we have some refreshments in a moment. But I just want to thank you all for coming along today. I'd also like to thank Lan. I know we had a little bit of trouble there with the technology this time but will get better and better at that. It's just fantastic to have our Vietnam colleagues also part of our discussion. So, we don't forget we've got a staff group up there as well, and part of our portfolio too. But please give a huge round of applause for our fantastic staff.

[Applause] *1:11:59.1.

[Belinda Tynan]

So, a huge thank you from all of us. I hope you'll now all join us for some refreshments out in the foyer. Thank you everyone for coming along today.

[Applause] *1:12:17.8.

[Music]

[End transcript]