Why enrol in Clinical Legal Education

VISUAL: Why enrol in Clinical Legal Education? Rob Hulls, Director, Centre for Innovative Justice talks about Clinical Legal Education at the prison legal service Inside Access with Andrew Spinks, final year Juris Doctor student. RMIT University logo.

VISUAL: Video of five male and female students walking through the entrance foyer of Swanston Academic Building, two students are ascending the escalator and one student is descending the escalator in the entrance foyer.

VISUAL: Video of a male student wearing a backpack with his back to camera ascending the escalator in the Swanston Academic Building and walking off at the next level

VISUAL: Video of seven male and female students walking around the escalators on level six of the SwanstonAcademicBuilding. (Level 6 is written in white on the roof of the escalator).

VISUAL: Video of Rob Hulls and Andrew Spinks ascending an escalator in the Swanston Academic Building and alighting at the next level.

VISUAL: Rob Hulls, Director, Centre of Innovative Justice, RMIT University speaking to camera.

Rob Hulls: Well, hi, students. I have with me a final year ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks looking at Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: ... law student, Andrew Spinks. Andrew ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: ... what made you decide to do the JD program?

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks, Juris Doctor Clinical Legal Education student, RMIT University speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: Oh, look, I finished my undergrad, an Arts degree, a very general degree and wanted to do a Masters in Policy or Law ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding whilst listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... and had some friends tell me ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... Social Justice and areas like that were pretty strong at RMIT and I thought I could go there to ... without having the goal of being a partner of a law firm or anything like that. I thought I could start there and make my way.

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: And you've just finished, as part of your course, a clinical education experience, if you like, placement with the Inside Access program. Can you tell us about that?

VISUAL: Wide angle shot of the interview: Andrew Spinks is speaking and Rob Hulls is listening. They are sitting in chairs opposite each other and two male media staff are standing. Four students are on the escalator to the left of the screen. They are on Level 5 of the Swanston Academic Building as a white number five is painted on the ceiling above the escalator.

Andrew Spinks: Yeah, look, that was great. I'm glad I did it towards the end of my degree.

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: There's nothing like practical experience when you're doing a law degree and I've been working at a community legal centre as well, on top of doing the CLE subject and so yeah, it was just great. It was a chance to use your ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding whilst listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... skills that you gained while you're studying and be exposed ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... to some pretty good professionals in their field, in terms of giving legal advice to people who are in need.

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: And Inside Access, actually, takes you into the Women's Prison.

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks nodding whilst listening to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: What was that, actually, like going into a women's prison?

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen. Rob Hulls smiles at the end of his question.

Rob Hulls: Had you been into a prison at any stage in your life?

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks, smiling and speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: No, no, I hadn't been into prison. So that was a first, my mum would be pleased for that.

VISUAL: Rob Hulls laughing and looking at Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: But yeah, I mean ...

VISUAL: Close?up of Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... in terms of initial impressions, I had no idea what it was going to be like and we got a bit of a run-down, a bit of a brief before we left ...

VISUAL: Wide angle shot of the interview: Andrew Spinks is speaking to Rob Hulls. They are both sitting in chairs opposite each other and two male media staff are standing. A male student walks from one ascending escalator to the next which is to the left of the screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... with the lawyers there, at the Mental Health Legal Centre and they gave us a bit of a heads-up but ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... you really don't know what you're in for. I thought it was going to be a lot more formal, the experience, in terms of lawyers coming in and ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... there'd be a ... some serious room set up for them and it would all be sort of how-do-you-do? Obviously, it's not going to be like that at all and there was people coming up to them and tugging them on the shirt and asking them for some advice on the run. So it was very informal ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... but yeah, I found it ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... very insightful. Esp ... particularly, Inside Access; I actually went twice. I went to the prison ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening and then speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... twice on elective so.

Rob Hulls: Well, you went to prison twice and came out twice which is good ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks laughing whilst listening to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: ... but you ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: ... did it as part of the Clinical Education elective.

Andrew Spinks: Yes.

Rob Hulls: So your impressions when you chose the elective. What were your impressions before you went into the prison and when you, then, finally came out and had finished the elective?

VISUAL: Close up of Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: Well, I guess I was ... before I went in, I really only knew what I'd read. So I knew that the lawyers, Inside Access lawyers would advise prisoners at the Dame Phyllis Frost Centre on all sorts of civil issues in terms of housing ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... guardianship, finances, fines, all ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... sorts of matters and also referrals like family law and criminal things like that and parole matters. So I knew that they did these things but I had no idea how it, actually, worked in practise and how they, the lawyers, would actually ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... use their skills in getting the message across to people who ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... are very frightened and concerned, quite often and ...

VISUAL: Wide angle shot of the interview: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls. They are both sitting in chairs opposite each other and two male media staff are standing. The empty escalator is to the left of the screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... most of whom, if not all, were experiencing mental illnesses.

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: So that was a real eye?opener to me; it was sort of oh, like you know I know what they do in practise but how do they actually convey those messages ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... when they're sitting from me to you away? So that was ...

VISUAL: Close up of Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... get ... that was the big takeaway: observing and yeah, really understanding the way top lawyers advise people in those desperate situations.

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Rob Hulls: Okay, so for those students who are deciding what electives to choose, you've now done the Clinical Education elective ...

VISUAL: Wide angle shot of the interview: Rob Hulls is speaking and Andrew Spinks is listening. They are both sitting in chairs opposite each other and two male media staff are standing. The escalator is to the left of the screen with two male students walking on it.

Rob Hulls: ... do you reckon it's going to make you a better lawyer when you finally get qualified?

VISUAL: Close?up of Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: Look, I ... yeah, I certainly think so. I mean finally qualified is going to be next year anyway, so without having done any of those things and if ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls nodding and listening to Andrew Spinks who is off?screen.

Andrew Spinks: ... you'd just stuck to the books then ...

VISUAL: Andrew Spinks speaking to Rob Hulls who is off?screen. Andrew Spinks gives a big smile at the end of his statement.

Andrew Spinks: ... I don't think you'd really have any idea what it was like to, actually, operate in that capacity in a lawyer's role so I'd recommend it to all students and I'd ... look, I think it should be a compulsory subject, so there you go.

Rob Hulls: Well, there you go students, you've heard from Andrew ...

VISUAL: Rob Hulls speaking to camera.

Rob Hulls: ... who's done the elective, he reckons it's fantastic, reckons it's going to make him a better lawyer. I'd urge you to certainly consider the Clinical Education aspect of your course.

VISUAL: RMITUniversity’s logo and website www.rmit.edu.au. This video features the audio Fashion Dictates available under a royalty free license.

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