Genevieve Jordan 00:00:00
Welcome everyone and thanks for joining us today. I'm really pleased to meet with you to let you know more about the Juris Doctor program that we have with RMIT online.
Genevieve Jordan 00:00:09
I'm Genevieve Jordan. I'm a Senior Product Manager here with RMIT Online and I've been working with the colleagues in the School of Law on delivery of this program.
Genevieve Jordan 00:00:18
But first, before we go too far, I would like to acknowledge the Woiwurrung and Boon Wurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nation on whose unceded lands we conduct the business. At the university. I acknowledge their ancestors and elders, past and present. I also acknowledge the traditional custodians and their ancestors of the lands and waters across Australia.
Genevieve Jordan 00:00:40
Now, today, I'm joined by three other panelists and I'll ask them to introduce themselves. We have Belinda Clarence, our program manager and lecturer. Rich Stanford, who is a RMIT JD student, and Elliot Kaufman, who looks after our student enrolments team. Belinda, would you like to introduce yourself first?
Belinda Clarence 00:01:00
Oh, yes. So, I, as the program manager, I look after all the academic matters of the program. course issues.
Belinda Clarence 00:01:13
problems that arise, just those day-to-day running of the degree.
Belinda Clarence 00:01:20
Um so, if you've got any queries that are to do with the academic requirements of the program. I'm the person. Fizz. Very little detail about the program that I don't know.
Belinda Clarence 00:01:33
Of course, if you've got course-related matters, you'll have a course coordinator.
Belinda Clarence 00:01:38
Yeah. But that's me, so my door's always open.
Genevieve Jordan 00:01:43
Thanks, Belinda. Rich, would you like to introduce yourself now?
Richard Sanford 00:01:47
Sure. Thanks, Genevieve. Hi, everyone. My name is Rich. As you can see in the slide there, I'm coming up to my final semester, hopefully, in my Juris Doctor. I've studied the entire degree online and, yeah, delighted to be here today to engage with everyone.
Richard Sanford 00:02:05
Later on, I'll be able to talk a little bit about what my experience has been like in the Juris Doctor and, particularly, studying online. And if anyone's got any questions, I think we've got some time for that at the end of the session today. So it'd be great to engage with you all if you've got any questions for me or just to have a chat about it. It'd be fantastic. So, yeah. Great to be here.
Genevieve Jordan 00:02:26
Good. Thanks, Rich. And Elliot, over to you.
Belinda Clarence 00:02:29
Thanks, Jen. Hi, everyone. I'm Elliot. I'm the Senior Enrollment Advisor here at RMIT Online.
Belinda Clarence 00:02:35
If you've got any questions, you can reach out to my team.
Belinda Clarence 00:02:39
There to assist with any questions regarding application, admissions requirements, or just general course information, you can reach out to me or my team, and we'll be your point of contact as well.
Genevieve Jordan 00:02:51
Beautiful. Thank you, Elliot. So in terms of the agenda for today's session, I'll talk a little bit about the features of the RMIT Online JD experience.
Genevieve Jordan 00:03:02
Belinda will talk a bit about industry and community collaboration and how that's embedded into your program. Rich, as he mentioned, will talk about his experience during the JD online with RMIT. And Elliot, of course, will talk about the application and enrolment processes, as well as share some of the key dates with you. And an all-important part of the session, of course, is your questions. So we're keen to have plenty of time to answer your questions. Please pop them in the chat as we go and we'll get to them either during the earlier conversation or at the end. And can I just let you all know that we are recording this session and we will be sharing that recording afterwards.
Genevieve Jordan 00:03:44
So I'm just going to give a bit of a short overview, as I said, of some of the key features of the JD program and in particular emphasising the approach we use at RMIT online.
Genevieve Jordan 00:03:55
We do pride ourselves on creating programs that are directly relevant to the real world of work. So we engage with representatives from industry, particularly the legal sector, in a whole variety of ways to help make sure the student experience is super relevant to current practices, the content is really up to date, and that, as a student, you are getting a really thorough and comprehensive preparation for a great career in law. In the case of the Juris Doctor, that includes engagement through our Law Advisory Board, through guest lecturers, and through the research that our academic staff do.
Genevieve Jordan 00:04:30
Our approach to online learning is super flexible and very well supported. We know that most of the people studying with us are fitting their study in around work and other responsibilities. It's a bit of a juggle. Our tutorials for core courses are where you get to engage directly with teaching staff and your peers. Those sessions are generally scheduled in the evenings on May through Thursdays and you are expected to join at those times.
Genevieve Jordan 00:04:56
In addition to our wonderful academic staff, we have student success advisors who assist with all sorts of queries that you may have along the way. This might be about your enrolment, the learning management system. We use Canvas. It might be about submitting assessments. It might be about how to apply for an extension if you need to do that. You'll find these advisors are super helpful and a really important part of your support crew as you're going through the program.
Genevieve Jordan 00:05:23
So why study the JD with RMIT online?
Genevieve Jordan 00:05:27
Something you might have noticed with the RMIT online program is that we do have limited numbers of Commonwealth supported places. You're probably aware that this means that part of the cost of the program is subsidised by the government and the other part is paid by you. You can also pay your part, the student contribution, via HECS help. So you can defer that payment if you wish. With a CSP, a Commonwealth Supported Place in the JD, you pay about $17,000 per full-time year. Instead of about $43,000, that's the 2026 rates, and those rates can change. But that gives you a bit of an idea of what we're talking about. For this upcoming intake, we're able to offer those CSPs to students with a GPA, a grade point average of 2. 4 and above. Students who have a GPA of 2 to 2. 3 will also receive an offer, but that will be for a full fee place. And just note that while we have CSPs for this upcoming intake, we can't necessarily guarantee that we'll have CSPs for future intakes.
Genevieve Jordan 00:06:30
In addition to the two standard semesters that we have, so that's with classes starting in early March and also starting late July. We also have a summer semester that starts in early November and runs through to early February. So you can take on additional studies if you wish. This is optional though. If you want to do the summer semester, you can. But if you want to have a break over summer, that's fine too. And note, you can't commence in the summer semester. You can commence, though, in March or the upcoming July intake.
Genevieve Jordan 00:07:02
The RMIT online program has been designed for online. You don't have to attend campus if that doesn't work for you. Though there are some opportunities to come on site if that's feasible for you, and Rich might talk a bit more about that shortly. Note there are exams for many of the courses, and this is a requirement of the Victorian Legal Admissions Board (VLAB). These exams are also done online. You can do the exams from home or your workplace if that's appropriate.
Genevieve Jordan 00:07:29
You do need to be in Australia though, but you don't need to travel to any kind of exam centre. So you've got a fair bit of flexibility there.
Genevieve Jordan 00:07:37
We have a range of electives so that you can tailor your program in line with your interests and your future aspirations.
Genevieve Jordan 00:07:44
So if you want to extend your knowledge to tax law or competition and consumer law, you can. If you see yourself working in family law, you might see an option to take that particular option course.
Genevieve Jordan 00:07:58
The program is accredited by the Victorian Legal Admissions Board, VLAB. This is the body that accredits all law courses in Victoria. as satisfying the requirements for admission as a lawyer in the state. And RMIT is one of eight Victorian universities that have been approved by VLAB to provide academic law courses. So just the eight different providers.
Genevieve Jordan 00:08:21
Just when we think about the structure of the program, the Juris Doctor takes a minimum of three years full-time equivalent to complete. That's with eight courses a year, which is a very full-time load. Most of our students study part-time and take at least six years to complete the program. In total, you'll need to complete 24 courses. So that's 18 core and seek selective.
Genevieve Jordan 00:08:45
Belinda might talk a bit more about this, but you'll start with the Introduction to Australian Legal System and Legal Methods course. This is delivered in intensive mode and it gives you some of that foundational knowledge that then underpins the rest of the program. It covers things like the constitutional framework, legislation and case law. Legal institutions, processes, and legal research, all those foundations that will help you along the way.
Genevieve Jordan 00:09:12
Then you'll continue with other core courses, things like contract law, torts, criminal law, and so on. These are also part of the Priestly 11. So they're the 11 core courses or core areas that are required to be covered in every accredited law program in Australia.
Genevieve Jordan 00:09:29
In first and second year, you'll mainly do core courses and you'll have one elective. In the third and final year, you'll finish the core courses and have four electives. You can see we have quite a range of law option courses on offer. We've actually just added a couple of new ones from next semester just to give you a bit more choice. So, human rights law in Australia and international business law, they're new to the online program.
Genevieve Jordan 00:09:54
And then, Legal Practice Management and Professional Conduct is the capstone course that gives you an opportunity to integrate and consolidate what you've learned throughout the program. You do this in your final year and in that course you cover things like confidentiality, handling conflicts of interest, ethics, accountability, all those really critical things.
Genevieve Jordan 00:10:15
So that's a very high-level overview of the program for me. I can see that we've got some chat happening, which is fantastic. Right now, I'll hand over to Belinda as our program manager. She's going to talk a bit more. about the ways we work with industry and the community in the program and some other things like study tours that might be something of interest for you.
Belinda Clarence 00:10:36
Over to you Belinda.
Belinda Clarence 00:10:39
Okay, yes, so the thing to remember is that this is a professional degree. The areas of study are mandated by legislation.
Belinda Clarence 00:10:50
So the Priestley 11, which are the core, the heart of the degree. You have no choice. You need to study those. So those are things like contract negligence, constitutional law, administrative law, equity and trusts.
Belinda Clarence 00:11:04
Because it's a professional degree, many of our assessments.
Belinda Clarence 00:11:08
Um, are teaching you to do the kind of things you're going to do in practice as a lawyer. So I can tell you examples of some of our assessments. They are memorandums of advice. That's typically the advice that a lawyer gives to a client or perhaps to the senior partner.
Belinda Clarence 00:11:25
You'll also get an opportunity to moose. Or we've indeed got an advocacy elective so that's practicing your oral arguments, legal interviewing, and writing judgments. That's one of the assessments I set. Negotiation, writing wills, and so a few of assessments and research essays I set. We do have a lot of those kind of practical-based assessments because we're preparing you to be admitted as a lawyer.
Belinda Clarence 00:11:59
So, as Genevieve mentioned, we do have invigilated exams for those core subject areas because we need to be able to sign off to VLAB that you've got that area of knowledge.
Belinda Clarence 00:12:14
So, in terms of electives, we've got a wide variety of electives. If you're interested in more... commercial ones, we've got those. If you're more interested in human rights, social impact, we've got some of those as well.
Belinda Clarence 00:12:30
And the other thing we've got as electives is legal internships. So that's where you get the chance to work in a law firm, including online. So we've got one with Anika Legal, which is a tenancy one. And so you can attend that virtually.
Belinda Clarence 00:12:49
So that covers up one elective space. We've also got study tours.
Belinda Clarence 00:12:54
We have had ongoing ones for quite a while now too. Vietnam and New Zealand. But we're about to add another one to South Korea. And that's going to be led by our Dean.
Belinda Clarence 00:13:07
Who happens to be an expert in comparative law.
Belinda Clarence 00:13:11
Um, We also have the Centre for Innovative Justice, which is on site. And they provide services in restorative justice to the Melbourne community and there's a chance to do an internship with them as well, but that one is in person.
Belinda Clarence 00:13:30
Um, we have a number of events and um, which are held in Melbourne, but many of our online students are in fact in Melbourne. And we always extend invitations. Even if you prefer to do it online because it's more convenient, you're very welcome to attend them.
Belinda Clarence 00:13:48
I usually post an announcement.
Belinda Clarence 00:13:51
So there's a program page which has a lot of program-related information, as separate to course information. And there's regular announcements which usually get emailed to you as well.
Belinda Clarence 00:14:04
The kind of events we have involve industry networking and industry speakers.
Belinda Clarence 00:14:12
Other parts of community engagement that's really important is to join the Law Student Society.
Belinda Clarence 00:14:18
It doesn't cost very much to join. And it's a great way to meet other students. And on top of that, they also run careers events. They publish an internship, a book, and they run competitions, such as moot competitions against other universities. So your first... Often people don't join the LSS straight away and then only realize halfway through. How great it is. And social events as well, such as the J. D. BBQ.
Belinda Clarence 00:14:47
We do encourage you to attend tutorials, but they are recorded if you're not able to.
Belinda Clarence 00:14:55
So attending tutorials is strongly related to academic performance.
Belinda Clarence 00:15:02
So, um.
Belinda Clarence 00:15:04
While it is recorded, it's strongly... encouraged for you to intend to engage with other students. A new lecturer.
Belinda Clarence 00:15:12
So one of the other things that I always say to students, and it's really important, is most students don't realize that JD courses are quite substantial.
Belinda Clarence 00:15:23
And they over-enrol. So it's very important to make note of census date, which is about four weeks into the semester, but find out what it is and put it up boldly, and make sure you withdraw before that date. Because if you withdraw before that date, and you think you've over-enrolled, you won't be charged financially or academically.
Belinda Clarence 00:15:45
Um, the other thing as well is that, once you've finished your JDE, you're not able to apply. As admission for a lawyer straight away, you've got to do six months practical legal training. So that's usually done through Leo cousins or a separate institution that offers that practical legal training.
Belinda Clarence 00:16:09
And, um, yes, I think that's all the practical things that I wanted to talk about. I might actually have a look at some of those questions quickly. And see if I can um.
Belinda Clarence 00:16:20
If I can get through them.
Genevieve Jordan 00:16:23
Sounds good, Belinda. Thank you. Thanks for that overview as well. We might hand over now to Rich just to talk about your experience as a student in the program.
Richard Sanford 00:16:32
Yeah, thanks, Genevieve. As I said earlier on, everyone, I'm actually delighted to be here today. It's a great opportunity to kind of share what I've been through, my experiences as a JD student.
Richard Sanford 00:16:44
Particularly studying online. So what I'll do first is kind of give you an idea about why I chose to study law now. Evidently, I'm no spring chicken anymore.
Richard Sanford 00:16:54
This is obviously a career change for me.
Richard Sanford 00:16:58
Law is in my family, so I have family members that are in the legal profession. And that had given me some idea of what day-to-day practice and life is like in the profession. But I come from a completely different career. So I actually chose something different out of uni. I've spent a long and successful career in the music industry.
Richard Sanford 00:17:21
At the time that I kind of made the decision to enrol and to actually finally do a law degree was just in that period after COVID. So travel had really... opened, and in my work, I was traveling a lot often internationally and that couple of years was really really busy for me. So one of the non-negotiables for me was that I had to be able to study online and I needed that flexibility to be able to engage with tutorials and the learning materials from anywhere. And so at the time that I was looking around... And I think this is still the case. RMIT Online is one of the only law courses that are actually specifically designed around the online experience. I think there are some other circumstances where the online experience is tacked on. That's not the case with RMIT. So you feel that as a student.
Richard Sanford 00:18:15
The ways that the learning experience is designed is purely with online learning in mind. And so we've talked about that a little bit more earlier today in terms of where the tutorials sit in the day, and I'll get into a little bit of that later as well.
Richard Sanford 00:18:34
But as I said, the online option was crucial for me. So I did actually consider going to the face-to-face option. So I'm actually a New South Wales resident. And I did consider going face-to-face and enrolling in one of the New South Wales institutions. The reason I didn't do that was just a personal timing thing for me. I had enough work going on at the time that I needed to be able to fit study in with work when I started. And I didn't want that abrupt finish where I had to... commit to weekly classes and actually go in face-to-face. And so that's what tipped it over the line. The other great thing that actually has borne out by Mike's is the teaching staff at RMIT. So you guys might be able to see online that, you know, there's some fantastic practitioners that... teach at RMIT and some of my most standout learning experiences have been through being taught by legal professionals. Practicing lawyers and practicing barristers and that has just been those have been standout learning experiences.
Richard Sanford 00:19:40
Those are the kind of factors that um that ultimately made the decision for me.
Richard Sanford 00:19:46
So before I move into what my actual day-to-day experience is like, it's a bit hectic at the moment, but I did want to say that there's one piece of advice that I kept hearing before I enrolled in a law degree, and it was... I didn't think it was that important at the time, but it's actually played itself out to be quite crucial. And I thought I'd echo that a bit today.
Richard Sanford 00:20:06
So I used to hear a lot that you've got to keep your options. Open, you know, you never know where where a law degree might take you, and and and that's true. There are a lot of different paths that you can take, and I didn't have— I had a little bit of an idea about what the day-to-day experience of a legal professional was like, but I didn't have a specific idea of, you know, I want to become a commercial lawyer or I want to work in community legal sector. I didn't have those clear. I intentionally made sure I didn't have those expectations going in. What's been really interesting though is that, throughout the semesters, as the semesters have gone on and as I've been exposed to different areas of law, um, I've kind of noticed I really gravitate to that particular area. I really have an affinity for that particular area. And with that open mind, it just happens. To be that those areas happen to be the areas that a barrister is required to know. So if you look at the requirements for the bar exam to be a barrister, you've got evidence and criminal procedure and civil procedure and ethics and legal practice and that stuff that I'm super interested in.
Richard Sanford 00:21:15
So just realising that I love those things throughout the degree has kind of steered me in that path and that's completely changed my priorities now. So when I look at enrolling in electives... As of this year, I've got a heavy focus on things like advocacy and things like that where the electives and the learning experience will feed into that next part of my career. And so I just wanted to touch on that briefly before I get into what my actual learning experiences was like.
Belinda Clarence 00:21:44
Can I just jump in there, Rich? Can I just jump in there, Rich? We had Amit Malek teaching in our degree. Who teaches. Advocacy in the Victorian Bar. Um, he's just been elevated to the county court, so he's a county court judge now.
Richard Sanford 00:22:01
Yeah, congratulations! He's not going to be teaching our students anymore, which is a shame, but he You know, again, that goes back to my point. You're supporting my earlier point there, Belinda, about the quality of the teaching staff. So I actually got taught evidence law by Armit, and it was a fantastic experience.
Richard Sanford 00:22:20
And and you know, those experiences are common where you're actually getting taught the law by people who practice it and they know the ins and outs, and that's been wonderful for me.
Richard Sanford 00:22:29
So yeah, I'd like to jump into actually how my... My week-to-week and my day-to-day looks like at the moment it's pretty hectic. I realize I'm probably not the norm here. A lot of the people that I know are studying are doing it part time. So they might take two or three subjects per semester and then pick up an extra subject during the summer semester, for example. There are ways that you can work that out, that you can do a degree in three or three and a half or four years and still not have that study load. I'm at the other end of the spectrum, so I've wanted to get this degree done as quickly as I can.
Richard Sanford 00:23:07
Uh, and... as far as possible, I've been able to accelerate.
Richard Sanford 00:23:13
My current situation, and I'm going to, sorry, Belinda, I'm going to go against your recommendations. I'm the odd one out though. So my current situation, which has been the case for the last couple of semesters, is: I'm actually working full-time as a paralegal and law reform officer, which is full-time, so that's 40 hours a week, and I've had a full-time study load as well. So... One of the main core things I wanted to talk about today is how the flexibility of the online learning experience is kind of the only way that that's been possible for me.
Richard Sanford 00:23:45
I will definitely echo what Belinda said earlier on about the importance of attending those online tutorials. So all of the classes in that way are scheduled outside of normal work hours.
Richard Sanford 00:23:58
And that's allowed me as much as possible to attend those classes live online. And I think that's a really crucial aspect of your week. But my day-to-day now is... fairly hectic. It's work during the day and the hours are scheduled for each subject every day and all weekend. It sounds like a sad existence, but it's certainly been challenging, but it's not an insurmountable challenge. I don't know that I'd recommend it, but it's possible.
Richard Sanford 00:24:27
That's probably the hardest thing that I've experienced in the degree, primarily because I wasn't expecting the full-time role to come up. So I hadn't planned to start working full-time, but the opportunity came up and I grabbed it. And again, it's that online flexibility that's allowed that to work.
Richard Sanford 00:24:44
Um, What I wanted to talk about as well is the connection that you're able to make with other students. So for me, when I started the degree, I kind of geared myself up for a fairly solo experience as a student. I didn't expect to be able to connect with that many people, particularly being a New South Wales resident studying at a Victorian university.
Richard Sanford 00:25:07
But the opposite's actually been true. So I've formed some incredibly, some amazing friendships over the course of the degree.
Richard Sanford 00:25:17
Uh, I've been involved in some mooting competitions with with those close friends of mine. Um, and that's just been wonderful.
Richard Sanford 00:25:26
If you're thinking about whether or not the online experience is a barrier for that kind of social connection, that hasn't borne itself out in my experience. As I said, I've made some incredible and close friendships, and that's also been sort of academically very beneficial too.
Richard Sanford 00:25:42
My friends and I sort of get together as much as we can once a week. Some weeks that's not possible, but we do it where we can. You know, go through the study material that we're sharing together and kind of just do that study group experience, but also, on a personal level, it's been great to to connect with people. So, that's very very possible.
Richard Sanford 00:26:01
I know I'm running out of time. There's so much I could talk about today, but there are a couple of things that I would like to kind of give as my tips and tricks. And the first one really is about connecting with other people.
Richard Sanford 00:26:14
So, it's very possible in that first couple of weeks of your online experience when you're in online tutorials and classes to connect with other students. You know, you're thrown into situations and breakout rooms where you're discussing an area of law or whatever it might be. And I just encourage you to keep those, you know, keep an open mind about trying to, you know, trying to notice if somebody's on the same wavelength as you and just connect with them where you can, because that's been really, really beneficial for me.
Richard Sanford 00:26:44
I would also say that the extracurricular activities that I've been involved in have been really really positive for me too. So I sit on the SSCC, which is the Student Staff Consultative Committee, and Belinda's on that one as well. We meet once or twice a semester, and it's a great opportunity for me and a couple of other students to kind of get together and, from the student advocacy point of view, discuss how RMIT is delivering its academic program. I just kind of put my hand up for those things when they come up, and they've been really beneficial. Those experiences and all very possible online.
Richard Sanford 00:27:23
I also wanted to say as well that things like mooting and competitions and those extracurricular activities— You probably hear this a lot and everybody will say it online how beneficial they are, but I'm just going to be another one of those voices echoing that. I've done a number of mooting competitions. Some online. I've travelled down to Melbourne for one to do RMIT face-to-face as well. And they are just so enjoyable. You learn so much and they're a great time. And so I would really strongly encourage you to get involved in as much of that sort of stuff as you can.
Richard Sanford 00:28:00
Sorry, guys. Again, I know I'm going over time. Just one more little tip. This is a bit of a study tip.
Richard Sanford 00:28:05
I know this is a bit strange. I don't know that anybody else does this, but it's really, really worked. really well for me. And I think it's one of the things that allowed me to cope with the load that I've had over the last couple of semesters. So every semester I'll look ahead to what I think might be the most difficult subject, the most sort of the densest area of law that might be coming up. And if I can, I'll get my hands on the textbook a bit ahead of time, like a couple of weeks before the semester starts. And I'll just run through the textbook in terms of giving myself a bit of a scaffold about what the subject's going to cover, what the area of law is sort of generally about. And I do that before the semester even starts. And it's just been worth its weight in gold, that tip, because when you're right in the thick of the semester, when you've got assessments, due and the readings don't stop, and all of the material is coming at you. If you've got your brain a little bit primed for one of those subjects and you kind of know where you're at— a little bit ahead of time— it just relieves so much of that pressure. So I know that's an odd one, but that's a huge tip that I would give anyone.
Richard Sanford 00:29:11
So that's my experience. As I said earlier, I'd love to hear some questions later on from people. If you've got anything that you'd like to ask about my experience, it'd be great to engage with you guys. Yeah, and thanks very much.
Genevieve Jordan 00:29:27
Thank you so much, Rich. That's fantastic to hear from you. Sounds like you're unusual in terms of the amount of study load and workload that you've been able to take on.
Genevieve Jordan 00:29:37
But certainly some great tips there and things like, you know, getting onto some of the reading and getting a textbook early has got to be a good way of just, you know, getting ahead. So thanks for that. We will have some more questions. So I'm sure some of those will be about your personal experience. But next, I'd like to hand over to Elliot just to talk about the application and enrolment process. Over to you, Elliot.
Belinda Clarence 00:30:00
Yeah, perfect. And thank you so much, Rich, for sharing your student-facing perspective. It's wonderful to hear. And I'm sure everyone in on the session really enjoys hearing. In your perspective as well, about studying with us. In regards to application, if you've enjoyed everything that you've heard and you're thinking, 'Yep, I think I'm going to apply for that.' It's a pretty straightforward process. Essentially, you just visit our course web page and you can see there's a bit of a photo there as well on the slide about the sort of top. of our course webpage.
Belinda Clarence 00:30:32
Essentially, as Genevieve mentioned earlier, you know, for a Commonwealth supported place, you need a GPA of around... 2. 4 out of 4. Note that Commonwealth supported places are very limited. I just checked before this webinar as well. We are still taking applications, but I'd recommend applying as soon as possible. Just to ensure you're not missing out. If you're applying on a non Commonwealth supported place, you just need a GPA of two out of four. Just know you need a batch. is in another vocation other than a bachelor of laws, um, or a jurist doctor. So yeah, any other degree other than a bachelor of laws or a jurist doctor, and you can apply for the program. Once you apply, press that red button that says 'Apply,' you'll basically be prompted to create like an RMIT, what we call an RMIT admissions online account. I just need to put in, you know. your personal details, name, email, you know, date of birth, those items. And once that's all done, then you can search for the plan code.
Belinda Clarence 00:31:35
Plan code for the Juris Doctor is... MC1610 and I'll come up with the Juris Doctor as an option to select. One tip and question I always get— once you do select the—plan—uh, it'll come up and say 'fee type' now there'll be two options: one will say 'commonwealth supported' and place the other says 'online study'. Now, a question I get all the time is, 'Oh, the Commonwealth Supported Place option, is that not online? It actually is.' So, if you're selecting that Commonwealth Supported Place, you are studying 100% online. You're just going to be applying on a Commonwealth Supported Place. If you just type in, if you select the online study option, that's going to be full fee. Now, once you submit your application, you're just going to require a copy of your certification and completion from your bachelor's or high-level qualification. You're applying based upon, and also the official academic transcripts as well. And once you've submitted your application, I'd say around about two weeks, give around... About two weeks for an outcome, but you'll receive an outcome from the RMIT admissions team directly to your email.
Belinda Clarence 00:32:43
So definitely a good point. Keep an eye on your junk folder and emails during that time. Just for any communication. I'd know if they require any further documents as a part of your application as well. They'll advise you via email what they need and then you'll be given a bit of time to supply those documents so they can continue the assessment of your application. Now, if you've got any, I know this is a big decision for a lot of people, you know, it's a large amount of time to complete these courses. If you've got any questions about the course. Or anything like that, you can reach out to me or my team, and we'll be there to guide you. If you're a bit unsure about, you know, if your qualification meets the... eligibility requirements, we're there to help you and give you some advice, um, around that as well. If you've got any questions about the course content, too, um, you know, we can guide you around that and give you information. So we're there to assist, and please feel free to to reach out and don't be afraid to as well and ask any questions you've got. Uh, that's what we're here to assist you with.
Belinda Clarence 00:33:45
I'd note, for the applications, we've taken applications until the 22nd of July. As I mentioned before, if you're looking at Commonwealth Supported Place, apply sooner rather than later so you don't miss out. But if you're just looking at a full fee, you can apply till the 22nd of July. We've got the last date— sorry, the start date for the program is actually going to be the 20th of July.
Belinda Clarence 00:34:08
And the last date to accept an offer will be the 30th of July. And the last date to actually enroll in your subjects is the 2nd of August. So we actually do take applications after the course has begun. But my recommendation— probably apply before— just so you're not sort of putting yourself behind, or anything like that. You don't need to play catch up.
Belinda Clarence 00:34:27
In regards to the fees, I think that was discussed a little bit earlier by Jen. You know, it's around about that sort of 100 on a full fee. It's around about that sort of $130,000 mark for the course on a Commonwealth supported place, a lot cheaper. It's around about sort of like $52,000. About a thousand dollars for your subjects. So, you know, if you're eligible for a Commonwealth supported place, definitely apply based on a Commonwealth supported place as well, just so you're getting that government. Funding, if you have any questions about sort of eligibility, you're unsure, if you're eligible for a Commonwealth supported place, you can visit the, the government website, just type in 'Commonwealth supported place', on, on Google, and there's government resources for that also, RMIT has resources on that as well, so you can type in 'CSP RMIT'. We've got our resources on eligibility and requirements, as well as funding on Commonwealth supported places.
Belinda Clarence 00:35:23
For fee help, a question we get quite a lot. Is, you know, can I, do I, when do I apply for fee help? Now, that's not something you apply for until you've actually received and accepted an offer for the course. So you need to actually apply for it. Receive and accept an offer. Once you've done that, then you can actually apply for fee help and you can even reach out to our team as well and we can send you through instructions. on how to apply for that and assist if you're having any difficulties or a bit unsure on sort of resources on how to apply for it. But yeah, that's pretty much sort of the application process. And, yeah, as I said before, if you have any questions or you need assistance, please reach out to ourselves. We're more than happy to assist. But, yeah, that's the application process.
Genevieve Jordan 00:36:10
Thank you so much, Elliot. That's fantastic. A nice thorough overview of all the pertinent information for people. We've got heaps of questions in the chat. I know Belinda's answered some of them, but some of them I think we might come back to, just in case there's scope for elaborating a bit further. And some of these questions I think are on a common thread. So Belinda, I wonder if you'd be happy to talk just briefly around the The number of students you would recommend, the number of subjects or courses you would recommend for students to take each semester. I know there was a question about one or two, but what's your advice?
Belinda Clarence 00:36:48
Okay, so... Rich is not the only person who's managed four subjects doing full-time work, but it does take enormous dedication and a bit of a sacrifice of any social life. I would actually say.
Belinda Clarence 00:37:04
I do know someone else who's a trade union, very senior role in trade unions who did it. But again, he was, you know, a work machine. Sir. I think to get enjoyment out of the subjects, I would say that two subjects and you'll still be working quite hard. What I also said in the chat is that. We estimate each subject to be 108 hours per semester of student-guided learning and 36 hours of teacher-guided learning. And half of that is lectures, recorded lectures or live lectures. And half of that is tutorials.
Belinda Clarence 00:37:40
So, I mean, you might be very efficient at learning and do it in less or you might have, you know, you might perhaps only be wanting to get a bare pass, or you might be wanting to get a higher distinction. I would say that doing too many subjects and just scraping through them actually takes away from the enjoyment of it. The enjoymentableness of it. Because studying law is actually very enjoyable. My first career was in engineering. And I mean, while I enjoyed my degree, I think that I enjoyed studying law a lot more. It's really challenging. and interesting. And if you're just constantly having to rush from one thing to another, you take away from the journey. But I mean, if you were, you know, it's all a matter of balancing.
Belinda Clarence 00:38:28
So, um, we do have a a recommended program structure. So one thing is: please do not just pick and choose. Oh, that looks like an interesting subject. I'll enrol in that. Very often RMRT doesn't enforce the course structure. And the program is scaffolded. So you must do criminal law before you do evidence.
Belinda Clarence 00:38:53
You've got to do, you know, fundamentals of contract before you do advanced contract.
Belinda Clarence 00:39:00
um you've got to do you know it's all these you've got to do property before you do equity interests So following the program structure really is important. Um, So the other reason that you might find if you don't follow the program structure is we don't offer every. core subject every semester.
Belinda Clarence 00:39:21
We offer core subjects once a year. So if you start... following your own path. you might find you get to a graduation bottleneck where something isn't offered because you've been taking subjects out of order. So it could add extra time.
Belinda Clarence 00:39:36
So there's a question also about GPA requirements. um do you know elliot what the minimum gpa is to for the jd I think it's about 2 . 4 or something.
Belinda Clarence 00:39:48
Two out of four. So just a two out of four. I'd note as well, if you have, because I know someone... other institutions, they assess their GPA sort of differently from ourselves. We actually have a, like a conversion that you can use. I'll send. I'll put the link through as well. And it basically shows you what, what each score is. So, like a credit's equivalent, I think a credit's equivalent to a two, um, high distinct distinctions, like a three. And I think high distinctions of four, but I'll show the, um, I'll send through that sort of conversion calculator that we've got in the chat as well.
Belinda Clarence 00:40:23
Yeah, and I would say that it's quite strict. So, if you get below the minimum GPA, it's unlikely that you will be admitted. and part of the reason is because it's quite an academic degree.
Belinda Clarence 00:40:37
and it's a lot of reading. So you can't get out of the reading. You can't get out of reading cases.
Belinda Clarence 00:40:44
Um, So, That's one of the things that you've got to learn how to do. You've got to learn how.
Belinda Clarence 00:40:51
because learning law can be a bit of a steep... learning curve. It's very different to other degrees. So it's not the same as a science degree and it's not the same as a literature degree.
Belinda Clarence 00:41:04
So what you learn quite early on is the way legal problem solving works. is identifying a legal issue. then locating the relevant rule. and then tying the two together in an analysis.
Belinda Clarence 00:41:19
And there's a very specific form of tight, legal, precise writing that students initially, you know, sort of ramble. I mean, we teach you how to do it. But they sort of ramble or describe the law, or um they have beat around the bush so that's something that you will learn how to do well.
Belinda Clarence 00:41:45
So there's a whole lot of actual practical legal skills that we teach, and legal writing is just one of them. I might just see if there's any questions. Oh, the study tours.
Belinda Clarence 00:41:57
So the study tours are great fun. I've actually led one myself to Vietnam.
Belinda Clarence 00:42:02
And we were basically looking, it was cultural and it was comparative law. So we were both doing some cult cultural events as well as visiting um um we visited boards of major law firms, we weren't able to attend court because that's just because Vietnam is a communist country. doesn't allow that. But we did a number of fun activities, race around the city, Ho Chi Minh City, and it was a great way for students to get a cultural legal perspective and also make friends.
Belinda Clarence 00:42:46
The one that goes to New Zealand. That one is led by the CRJ, the Centre for Innovative Justice. So students have a wonderful opportunity to attend restorative justice. Examples such as the special Māori courts. Um, and how that those courts have integrated New Zealand and Maori justice systems.
Belinda Clarence 00:43:13
So the one to South Korea, we haven't actually, it hasn't, it might be up and running next year. And that's going to, again, be a comparative law one. To South Korea. So we run those, typically we run them there's not really enough time in June, July. So we tend to run those around about November, December.
Belinda Clarence 00:43:36
So, um, Is that all everyone's questions?
Genevieve Jordan 00:43:40
There are more questions, Belinda, and we may not get to all of them in the time we have. There have been a couple of questions about interstate and recognition of the RMIT qualification interstate. Would you like to make a general comment on that, whether it be for New South Wales or WA?
Belinda Clarence 00:43:58
Yeah, yeah.
Belinda Clarence 00:43:59
I can do that. So what you're getting in the JD, you're getting the academic requirements to be admitted.
Belinda Clarence 00:44:08
But you can't be admitted to the Supreme Court until you've also done practical legal training. That's typically six months. And you'll do things there like negotiating.
Belinda Clarence 00:44:18
um, conveyancing. writing wills. just very practical things.
Belinda Clarence 00:44:24
but we meet the academic requirements. but to be administered in a particular state. you've got to meet the requirements of the board, the legal board for each state. So the academic, so our academic law degree is recognised as meeting the academic requirements for all the different boards, but they might have specific requirements. For instance, in Victoria, you need to be of good character.
Belinda Clarence 00:44:54
That's just one of the requirements. So it doesn't really mean, you know, perhaps you once got a drink driving conviction. That doesn't... take away your good character. What would take away your character would be something like an offence of dishonesty.
Belinda Clarence 00:45:14
So that's why academic misconduct is very important for lawyers, because lawyers are entrusted with other people's money and their affairs.
Belinda Clarence 00:45:25
That suggests dishonesty is likely in most states of Australia. Unless you can say, 'Look, it's all happened a long time ago and I'm a new person,' that's just a matter of depending. I mean, I'm admitted to the Supreme Court of Victoria. If I wanted to go to New South Wales, I'd have to look up the New South Wales board and apply there to be admitted.
Belinda Clarence 00:45:52
So that's because the law, although the law is different in certain areas in each state, there are some federal areas that are the same. For instance, employment law, corporations law, is the same. That criminal law, equity, and trusts is state-based, but the differences are not huge.
Belinda Clarence 00:46:14
So it's just, it's just our unique. Uh system here in Victoria, well here in Australia, that we've got a state-based and a federal system.
Belinda Clarence 00:46:24
It's just our constitutional arrangements.
Belinda Clarence 00:46:26
Are legally more complicated than a lot of other countries.
Genevieve Jordan 00:46:31
Thank you, Belinda. Thanks for that. A different kind of question now, if you don't mind. There's a question: if I was to be in a graduate role, would I still be able to complete a JD? Rich, I'm going to direct this one to you, if that's okay.
Richard Sanford 00:46:46
Yeah, absolutely. I'll talk about what the implications are if we're just talking about graduate roles generally.
Richard Sanford 00:46:55
I don't see any barrier to that.
Richard Sanford 00:46:59
I think the thing that's assisted me the most in terms of my employment arrangement and studying at the same time is that, because I'm working in a legal role, role, everybody understands what's required at the pointy end of a degree. So, for example, I've just finished my semester one exams and I was able to take some time off for those. exams when they happened because they always happen in business hours. So I think it's more of that type of discussion.
Richard Sanford 00:47:27
It's whether or not you're currently employed. Would be flexible with those arrangements with you. Otherwise, I don't see any issue with it. I think, like I was saying before, I think my situation is rare and I totally echo what Belinda said about... diving into and involving yourself in the subjects as deeply as you possibly can. And for some people, that means that would mean only doing one or two subjects per semester.
Richard Sanford 00:47:56
And so I think it is important to keep conscious of that workload. If you're contemplating balancing a graduate role with a degree, it's a fairly... significant consideration. In my case, I happen to be able to do both of the things. But as Belinda said, it means no social life. It means some fairly deep... sacrifices for the 12 weeks that a semester runs. And it's relentless. And as I said before, that's not particularly something that I would recommend, but it is possible. So I hope that answers the question.
Belinda Clarence 00:48:29
Could I also just jump in here as well, as we do have flexibility processes.
Belinda Clarence 00:48:34
So if a sudden, unexpected event happens, um— the you know we do we can um— There's processes for extensions, for deferred, for equivalent assessments, but you need to make a case that it's supported with evidence that some completely unexpected event has arisen or you've fallen ill.
Belinda Clarence 00:48:57
something like this. Did you find that you used them much, Rich, or did you just get things done?
Richard Sanford 00:49:03
I'm really proud to say I've only applied for one extension in my degree. It's like a badge of honour. And that was only because I had a blackout in my house for like a week for that period. It was the only reason I've had to do one.
Belinda Clarence 00:49:15
Well, I would actually second that because I find that I'm just saying that it's there. But once you get into a world of extensions and then other things blow out and it actually does not, in fact, help you. So it's sometimes a mistake that law students make because they often tend to be people who seek perfection. Is there let's perfection be the enemy of just getting it done.
Belinda Clarence 00:49:40
So sometimes it's better to just, it's due midnight on Sunday. I'm just going to submit. You know, if I ask for an extension, because then something else is going to go, and then you might not do that week's lectures. So sometimes it's you. Obviously, you obviously have very good time management skills. Rich.
Richard Sanford 00:49:58
Well, I was going to speak to that earlier, actually, when I was addressing that. And I think it is very much about time management. I think I'm... Probably more scared of what would happen if I missed a week of learning, if I missed a week of readings, if I missed a week of readings, I know that that to me is like I panic thinking about that. It's it's easier for me to sort of stick to the schedule, and and and involve myself in the readings or the assessment work that I've got to do at that particular time.
Richard Sanford 00:50:26
Just in the situation that I'm in, there's just no room for procrastination. And I do agree with what you're saying there, Belinda. I think once you've got those assessment... and you know when your exams are, I think it's the most sensible, it's actually the most efficient approach to just commit to those unless there's something really outrageous that happens in your life. You've got to rely on those. But look, the other thing about relying too much on assessments too, that I would say is that it means that you're out of step with everyone else. And I think that's a big problem.
Richard Sanford 00:50:57
Like I was saying before, you know, the ability to connect with people during an online degree I think is so important. Once you start kind of getting out of sync with everyone else, you know, you lose the ability to kind of touch base on where you're up to with your readings and stuff like that. And to be able to discuss where you're up to and I think that's that's like that's really to be avoided. So um, yeah, I would agree with that.
Belinda Clarence 00:51:19
And also it means if you're behind, and don't fall behind. One of the tips I could give is get involved with your studies immediately. Don't say, 'oh, I'll wait until week three or four,' because you get the most out of tutorials if you've done the prep work beforehand. Otherwise, a lot of it's just going to go past you. And, you know, it might be, but you won't get the full benefit.
Belinda Clarence 00:51:44
And yeah, and as Rich said, discussing it with others, whatever those issues are, all good advice.
Genevieve Jordan 00:51:51
Thank you both on that front. A couple of other questions back around enrolment and deferral and so on. So, Elliot, I might handball these your way. One is when is the next enrolment? And just off the back of that as well, can I apply now and then defer to next year?
Belinda Clarence 00:52:10
Look, if you're applying on a Commonwealth supported place, no— your application needs to be on the term that you're applying it in. So you can't do a sort of a leave of absence.
Belinda Clarence 00:52:22
What we call leave of absence for if you're on a Commonwealth supported place. In terms of 2026 dates, I've included in the chat the link for all of our important dates for 2026. And as I mentioned before, last date to apply for this one. This semester, rather, is going to be the 22nd of July. In terms of 2027, if you're looking towards next year, from historically... We're not accepting applications just yet, but historically, I'd be expecting towards the end of the year, around about that November, December time, that you'd probably be seeing, maybe even a little bit earlier in October, that you'd be seeing applications open. But expect towards the end of the year.
Belinda Clarence 00:53:09
What were the other questions? Sorry, John.
Genevieve Jordan 00:53:11
I think they're the main ones and some questions, of course, have been answered as we've been going along and I see you've shared some links there too. So thanks for that, Elliot.
Genevieve Jordan 00:53:20
Pleasure. I am also just looking at the time and mindful that we're pretty keen to keep to time. What I'd like to do just in closing is actually invite each of our panellists just to share any last piece of advice that they'd like to share before we do wrap. I will say before that also that we are recording this. We will share the recording within a day or two of the session so that everyone who signed up for the event will actually get that recording if you missed the beginning or anything like that. But perhaps can I go to you first, Rich? Any last piece of advice that you might want to emphasise before we wrap?
Richard Sanford 00:53:55
Yeah, absolutely. I think if you're at this stage and you're thinking about doing a law degree, I think that's the first threshold that you've met.
Richard Sanford 00:54:03
And from here on, it's just... I would say just dive in and do it. You know, I just had a bit of a look through the chat and there are some comments about the trepidation to do with the commitments. You know, people... might have young kids and family commitments and stuff. I think there are always ways of making those things work. The benefits that I've gotten out of studying a law degree just can't be overemphasized. I mean, it's an absolutely fantastic life change to make, um, and so I would just say grab the bull by the horns and and do it.
Genevieve Jordan 00:54:36
Terrific. Thank you.
Belinda Clarence 00:54:38
Belinda? I would agree with that. It's been the most enjoyable thing to study. You learn so much about life. and one of the things I'd say about studying it later is I almost think... I teach the LLBS and they're straight as well as the JD and they're straight out of school. I always sometimes think that law is wasted on those who very young that you have an appreciation for it when you're older because you've maybe had kids or you've had a bit of life and you just, um, know. Because law is really about life, it's about people and a sort of applied philosophy. Really.
Belinda Clarence 00:55:15
But yeah, it is a tremendously enjoyable thing from an academic point of view to study.
Genevieve Jordan 00:55:22
Thank you. Thank you. And Elliot, any last words from you?
Belinda Clarence 00:55:25
Yeah, echoing all the previous sentiments as well. But, you know, I know I've mentioned it a couple of times, but, you know, it is a big decision. You know, it's going to sort of, if you're looking to do the course... going to shape the next couple of years of your life and uh if you if you have any questions or you're just unsure or um you know you need anything clarified please just ask the question um we're there to help and we're there to guide you on that journey as well so um you know you're feeling as comfortable as you can uh before undertaking the course Thanks, Elliot, and thanks to all of our panellists.
Genevieve Jordan 00:55:57
Thanks to everyone who's joined us today. As I mentioned, we'll be sharing the recording with you all soon, so you can watch back if you wish. And we wish you all the best with your future studies. Thank you all.
