00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:22
Speaker 1
hello and welcome everyone to RMIT Online's first event for 2026. We are absolutely thrilled to be back. After coming off last year and the year before, the events have just been ramping up and we are thrilled to be back in January again. To start off, our series, my name is Oskar Santos.
00:00:19:22 - 00:00:39:10
Speaker 1
I had the absolute privilege and the wonderful job of looking after our industry partners, that collaborate and work with us on all our courses, thought leadership exercises and all the wonderful, fun things that we do here at RMIT online. If this is the first time that you're joining one of our events. Hello and welcome. If you're a regular welcome back.
00:00:39:10 - 00:00:59:02
Speaker 1
Good to see you. Thank you for joining. These are interactive sessions. These are the opportunity where if you have burning questions for our panelists, we absolutely encourage you to pop those into the chat. And if we can, at the end of the formal conversation, we will absolutely try to get to each and every one of those if we can.
00:00:59:02 - 00:01:24:24
Speaker 1
So please, I encourage you be involved in this conversation, share your insight, or your perspective. And we would absolutely welcome that. I'm dialing in today from Melbourne, which is the land of the Woi wurung and Boon Warung language groups of the Eastern Kulin nations. I respectfully acknowledge their ancestors, past and present, and also acknowledge the traditional custodians and ancestors of the land which we're all gathering today.
00:01:24:24 - 00:02:05:08
Speaker 1
And I know, as we've seen from the chat, people are coming from all over the nation. So which is wonderful. I guess today's today's topic. We have some industry experts, who are going to discuss all things on the leadership topic that I'm sure you would have drawn you to this conversation and got you to, I guess participate in, today's event, we're going to touch on topics such as where leadership has changed in the last five years, what employers are expecting now, and I guess how you can showcase your leadership potential even if you don't have that title, amongst other wonderful questions that we will cover today.
00:02:05:08 - 00:02:34:16
Speaker 1
So very, very exciting. Driving this conversation, I'm joined by subject matter experts Karen Katz, director of KK consulting. Karen, thank you for coming along. Sarah Purches, managing Director of Kindtine. Hello, Sarah and Amalia Chilianis GM of cultural leadership and belonging at Alinta Energy. Thank you all for joining today's conversation. It's wonderful to have you here.
00:02:34:18 - 00:02:36:14
Speaker 3
Great to be here.
00:02:36:16 - 00:02:39:00
Speaker 2
Really appreciate being us. Thank you.
00:02:39:05 - 00:03:01:17
Speaker 1
Excellent. So I think let's get the ball rolling. I've got a feeling we're going to have a lot of audience questions, so we better get started. Sarah, I'm going to start with you, if you don't mind. And I'm going to start with the question, which skills do you think are essential for emerging leaders now and which will matter in the which will matter most in the next five years?
00:03:01:19 - 00:03:25:21
Speaker 3
This is a really good question. Because I think we can easily defer to the common things that come up, and I think they're still relevant, but there's a bit more to it. So I guess what I would see is clarity, communication, trust, flexibility, human literacy, and just a genuine commitment to growing people. I mean, people can handle the hard work, but they can't handle unclear priorities and leaders who change direction without explaining why.
00:03:26:02 - 00:03:47:16
Speaker 3
And candidates are constantly telling me I'm happy to do the work. If just someone told me what mattered. So I think, you know, strong leaders need to have that clear communication of priorities. What good looks like give, early and directive feedback on work quality behavior and follow through. Not exploding at the last minute and trusting people to deliver without hovering.
00:03:47:18 - 00:04:08:24
Speaker 3
But I think one of the really big things that is coming up more commonly now, and I don't think we're talking about it enough, is human literacy. It's absolutely essential if you're leading people, you lead bodies, you lead brains. And in Australia, there's about 38% of women who are in, you know, 40 to 50 age group, and they're significantly impacted by menopausal symptoms.
00:04:09:01 - 00:04:32:18
Speaker 3
You know, around 6% of those people say that symptoms often affect their ability to actually work. And 7% of women aged 45 to 64 have actually missed work due to menopause. And 17% have actually taken extended time away. Now, these are I'm sure those numbers are actually bigger than what is even reported. And these and this is coming from experienced senior talent.
00:04:32:23 - 00:05:00:23
Speaker 3
So when leaders don't understand these men or women, you are misreading fatigue as disengagement or brain fog as poor performance. And instead of just adjusting expectations and just supporting growth. So over the next five years, I think the key things are going to be leading through ambiguity, ambiguity, building trust without visibility and staying curious and continuously upskilling, and that growing capability in others, not just in yourself.
00:05:01:08 - 00:05:22:22
Speaker 1
Fabulous insight. Really, really interesting. Some of the points you made, I think this idea of continuous learning will absolutely be, a burning component for everybody. And very, extremely, extremely important. Karen or Amalia did you have a perspective or a thought on that particular question as well? Before I move along.
00:05:22:24 - 00:05:45:15
Speaker 2
I think that it's interesting that you've highlighted menopause, because that has become so topical over the last maybe 3 to 5 years, where no one would talk about it. Previously, it was, you know, hidden behind some, you know, magical curtain. And I think that you've highlighted that. And it's really important that people understand that and make room for it and ask more questions.
00:05:45:15 - 00:06:06:09
Speaker 2
And even, you know, to the point of making reasonable adjustments to be able to cater for people who, are suffering from menopause, you know, there and it really can be suffering. Been there. I can tell you that much. You know, and when you walk into a room and you don't remember why, that is really tough and then to try and do your job on top of that.
00:06:06:09 - 00:06:09:05
Speaker 2
So I think it's great that you highlighted that.
00:06:10:01 - 00:06:29:22
Speaker 1
Karen, if you don't mind, I'm I'm going to stick with you and I'm going to stick with another question for you. And it's it's around modern teams and are often hybrid like this, This is just the norm cross-functional and generationally diverse. What leadership approaches help you get the best from all these types of perspectives.
00:06:29:23 - 00:06:55:15
Speaker 2
So I very much believe in an individual approach, taking the time to really get to know the people that you're leading, understanding how they like to work, how their experiences have shaped them. And in a hybrid world, we've become so disconnected. So when we are in the same space, rather than relying on incidental colab, collaboration, I'd like to encourage deliberate collaboration when the chance is there.
00:06:55:17 - 00:07:25:14
Speaker 2
In terms of the cross-cultural, personally, I love to do this with food. Many of my teams in the past have organized cultural food days. Everyone brings something in that represents you, your culture, your background, and share and talk. And I think that what that does is it really builds teams and allows you to lead more effectively because you're creating this form of trust, you're creating bond, and it allows you to then take them on a journey with you because they're invested.
00:07:25:16 - 00:07:47:21
Speaker 2
You know, and in terms of the multi-generation, you know, having, having raised some of those in the generation that follow, who would rather communicate like this and communicate like that, what I actually love to do is actually encourage coffee catch ups between people of different generations just to get to know each other and understand more about them.
00:07:47:21 - 00:08:09:05
Speaker 2
And in the past, what I've done is I've started with just standard questions ask each other this, and then what you find is that it just evolves naturally into a free flowing conversation, but encouraging people to be curious about each other. And Sarah used the word curious before I think allows you to be a little bit vulnerable. Open up.
00:08:09:07 - 00:08:21:21
Speaker 2
And then she she, you know and share and then allows you to be more easily led. And certainly if you demonstrate that as a leader, if you give a little bit, you get a whole lot more back.
00:08:21:23 - 00:08:46:21
Speaker 1
Interesting. I really like that, particularly that idea around let's get together and get to know each other around some snacks. Sounds like some wonderful advice. Definitely something we could implement here at our workplace. There's a wonderful people from a range of cultures. I'm sure we get some delicious things coming our way. Amalia, you've worked across a range of industries and, you've held senior roles in organizations.
00:08:46:21 - 00:09:02:05
Speaker 1
And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I know there's there's been IBM, there's been say, hold nab, just to name a few. Yeah. What leadership skills have proven most transferable for you across these different environments?
00:09:02:07 - 00:09:28:07
Speaker 4
I, Sarah and Karen, both mentioned it already. Curiosity. And you know, I'll share openly and honestly. And I learned the hard way. I have to be I have to say, when I came out of IBM, I was given feedback that, professional services, you don't translate well into other organizations. And boy, did I get and learn the hard way by joining the Department of Transport.
00:09:28:07 - 00:10:00:24
Speaker 4
So actually a government organization and you know, people luckily gave me feedback to go, we're really sick of hearing how you did it at IBM. Right. And, so good lesson in that. And I shouldn't be so judgy of new leaders when they come in now, but that seeking to understand approach and, you know, IBM is a very professionally mature organization, been around for over 100 years, very similar to General Motors Holden as well.
00:10:00:24 - 00:10:25:02
Speaker 4
So they had well worn and really well researched and well used people processes and management and leadership development. And then going into different organizations where their professional maturity was different, their audience was different. Department of transport. Most people had two degrees, not one. I worked in another, you know, blue collar environment. And I worked in real estate in a different job.
00:10:25:02 - 00:10:50:23
Speaker 4
There's too many talk of, where the highest level of education was a certificate four And so while I was doing similar work, forming teams, building culture, leadership development, it was all really different because you have to meet your audience where they're at, so that starting from seeking to understand, was super, super important. And then, and a level.
00:10:50:24 - 00:11:19:19
Speaker 4
So I'm going to touch on what Sarah said in that human literacy side. You again, you have to understand the business that you're working in. If I took that, I firmly believe that 100%. You have to sell it differently for the audience and the organization you're working in. And so when I work in very technical organizations like Alinta Energy, like Holden, I don't come from that angle.
00:11:19:19 - 00:11:39:09
Speaker 4
I come from a biology, and science is well researched, well backed, and it is data. And why would we ignore data to inform a decision? Yep. And so we're coming at it from a different way, even though we're going to get the same outcome, which is we do good things for good people, for everybody to reach their full potential.
00:11:39:10 - 00:11:59:17
Speaker 4
Because, you know, we are decent humans. But we also work in business and it needs to be commercial and it needs to make sense. And, you know, we need to understand, you know, return on investment and all those sorts of things. So, you know, there's a lot there's a lot for new leaders to take on, but definitely that seeking to understand approach.
00:11:59:17 - 00:12:29:12
Speaker 4
And you will never be a good leader if you have no self-awareness. So start with self and actually understand the impact that you have on others, the shadow you cast and the contagion, both negative and positive, is widespread. And as you get more senior what I also see, we haven't done a really good job from a HR perspective in setting the expectations of leadership.
00:12:29:12 - 00:12:53:01
Speaker 4
So what often happens is you're going to be good at your job and I'm going to promote you into a leadership role, but I've given you none of the skills or training to show you how to understand people and lead them. Well. But then what we don't do is we don't say as you get more senior in the organization, your focus, your time span, your level of work changes, and people just think, I do a bigger job, but you don't.
00:12:53:01 - 00:13:18:01
Speaker 4
Your focus is it is bigger. But your focus is quite different. And so there is different expectations of leadership at different levels of leadership as well. So, coming back to, if you will keep yourself well, if you are curious, continue to learn and are self-aware. And it really does help if you genuinely care about people.
00:13:18:01 - 00:13:52:12
Speaker 4
I did have people particularly at Holden. The engineers would say, can you teach people to care? And I, I don't know, I don't know if I've answered that question or I have an answer for that question. Maybe that's one for my for my panelists. As as a specialist, especially in learning and capability build, there are some capabilities and skills that are much harder to build than others, and there's a few that are near impossible if you don't have that skillset already or have the building blocks for it.
00:13:52:12 - 00:14:11:00
Speaker 4
So, that one, might be one for everybody to ponder. But it certainly does help because, as Karen said, the best leaders are ones that do take an individual approach, and are about getting the best out of their team members as well.
00:14:11:02 - 00:14:34:22
Speaker 2
Can I just add only because I find it really interesting that you focus on care, because that is my mantra. Care matters. And the idea of trying to teach someone care when I find it so inherent in who I am and what I'm about. I've honestly, you've really thrown a challenge out there. How do you teach someone to care when to me, it's an inherent emotion that's fascinating.
00:14:34:24 - 00:15:01:01
Speaker 4
But some people unfortunately it and I'm going to say this, they do care because every everybody does to a point. But it will be the order of priority they place on it. And so I would, I think it's, it's unkind to say people don't care. They do care. But it is it when pushed with a priority order of deliver the work or care about the person.
00:15:01:03 - 00:15:13:24
Speaker 4
Yeah. There will be some that prioritize delivering the work and there will be others that prioritize caring about the person, because there will be times when those two things clash, and that's when there's problems hundred percent.
00:15:14:01 - 00:15:21:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Really. Sarah so you're nodding, i wonder if you had something to add there or you were just saying agreeance in the conversation.
00:15:21:08 - 00:15:47:13
Speaker 3
Yeah. No, I agree with that. And I just think it shows up differently in different people. You know, we all, created very differently some of us iare Neuro Spicy as well. And sometimes that shows up in ways that might others may not actually understand. So I think, you know, remaining curious as well. And I think curiosity is just a core skill set that every regardless of whether you're a leader or not, it's just a really critical skill to have.
00:15:47:15 - 00:16:01:17
Speaker 1
Sarah, sticking with you. And on a similar, I guess, conversation part, what role would you say emotional intelligence plays in effective leadership? And how do you cultivate that in your daily work?
00:16:01:18 - 00:16:24:14
Speaker 3
That's a great I was actually having a conversation with an executive earlier today, and we were saying, you know, if a leader doesn't have that emotional intelligence skill set there, just how much of a terrible impact it can have on the whole wider team and organization. It can essentially break a business. I think it's one of the most, commercial leadership skills that there is.
00:16:24:14 - 00:16:46:12
Speaker 3
It's really important. Candidates don't tend to complain or employees don't complain about pressure. They complain about the leaders who are unpredictable or reactive or make people feel small. You know, emotionally intelligent leaders, they they know how to regulate themselves before responding. They can communicate really calmly under stress. They protect their people as well. You know, they listen to understand, not to reload.
00:16:46:12 - 00:17:13:16
Speaker 3
And they give they give feedback, that helps people grow and not shrink. And there's a real art in giving feedback. And I think some often it hits the mark. You know, day to day. I think what that means is, you know, pausing when you're feeling triggered, giving, you know, naming the real issue and giving feedback close to the behavior and asking things like, you know, what support or opportunity could, you know, would help you to do your best work.
00:17:13:22 - 00:17:39:05
Speaker 3
I don't think empathy, it's not softness necessarily. It's accuracy, and it's how people grow. But I think we just got to be mindful in how we deliver that, you know, deliver things with kindness. At the end of the day, it's, you know, and our previous CEO at RMIT Online used to say, Helen Souness as you say the people, the people, the people, we're dealing with humans, we're dealing with people, you know, we've all got stuff going on in our life and that impacts how we show up on that day.
00:17:39:05 - 00:17:59:16
Speaker 3
So, you know, lead with that little bit of curiosity and don't make assumptions and, you know, check in with your people form relationships with them, and get a little bit of understanding of what makes them, them. A little bit of understanding of context about what might be going on in their life at that time. And, you know, just that in that genuine care peace
00:17:59:16 - 00:18:04:08
Speaker 3
You know, I think that's really important as a leader you should care for your team.
00:18:04:10 - 00:18:22:17
Speaker 1
Sarah, the reverse of that. If I am someone who has a manager that doesn't necessarily have great emotional intelligence, how do I, as the the staff member or the employee, how do I manage that? How do I what can I do to, I guess, navigate a scenario like that?
00:18:22:19 - 00:18:47:09
Speaker 3
Gosh, now you're asking the really hard questions listen that's a really it's a really hard position to be. I've been in that position before and it can be really challenging. Because you're often faced with an authority figure that you don't want to rock the boat with, and you don't want to kind of approach it or be assertive and to say, listen, the way you approach that really made me feel anxious, and it didn't make me feel safe in this environment.
00:18:47:09 - 00:19:06:13
Speaker 3
And what I would prefer is they say so like it really depends on the kind of leader that you're working with. I think maybe a good approach, depending on the relationships that you might have across the organization, is finding maybe a another leader or someone who knows that person quite well, that you have trust with, that you can lean on and just say, you know what advice this is kind of the situation.
00:19:06:15 - 00:19:39:15
Speaker 3
Maybe without going into too much detail, but, you know, thinking, what would you say would be a good approach to this if I said this, what do you think that response might be? Just to kind of sense, check and feel a little bit more safe in how to approach that? Often you might find that if there is another leader that has perhaps worked with them for five years, they might have a little bit more insight into best approaches for that person, or maybe what not to do, which can potentially provide you with a little bit of guidance to put your best foot forward in having those conversations.
00:19:39:15 - 00:19:57:24
Speaker 3
But I do think it's really important to advocate for yourself. And sometimes people are just really unaware, you know, and if they are someone that's open to feedback, if you can also approach it with kindness, because also we don't know what our leaders are going through at that time, they could be under significant stress either within work or outside of work.
00:19:58:01 - 00:20:10:08
Speaker 3
But just, you know, approach it with kindness, seek to understand with a bit of curiosity, but also advocate for yourself and just say, hey, that didn't really land well for me and I want to explore how we can work better together.
00:20:10:10 - 00:20:23:16
Speaker 1
Interesting. That's yeah great. Great insight. Karen you're you're off. You're off the mute. So I thought you may have something to add to this. Is there anything that you wanted to include in this, in this conversation about emotional intelligence?
00:20:23:18 - 00:20:47:08
Speaker 2
To be honest, I was just getting ready in case you were going to be answering your question, but I think that. Sorry, asking me a question. I think the feedback mechanism is actually really important. And how you approach wanting to offer feedback. When I do some of my exec team building, we work through a mechanism of feedback, which is an approach of, you know, can we please talk about these to engage someone and then taking them through that?
00:20:47:10 - 00:21:06:24
Speaker 2
But, I mean, as Sarah has said, when you're talking about an authority figure and you don't want to rock the boat, but you want to offer that, it's finding that balance of being able to advocate for yourself. But at the same time, you don't want to have something to put someone off side who's a decision maker in terms of you, your work, your career, your growth and so on.
00:21:07:01 - 00:21:12:24
Speaker 2
So I actually quite like bringing someone else in I think thought Sarah had some really good ideas there.
00:21:13:01 - 00:21:29:20
Speaker 1
Karen sticking, sticking with you and changing the topic slightly. In your view, how is the definition of leadership evolving and what should future leaders embrace and what should they leave behind?
00:21:29:22 - 00:21:51:17
Speaker 2
Look, I think that people are craving more authenticity and genuine approaches in their leaders. People don't want to be talked at. They want someone who's interested in them as a human and who's, like, genuine, genuinely invested in their career development and growth. I think people want to be backed by someone who wants them to succeed. So giving someone your time is more valuable than you know.
00:21:51:19 - 00:22:18:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, we need to do less talking and more listening, I think is the bottom line in terms of future leadership and really getting the most out of our people. Yeah, those days of deciding what's best for someone before really listening are gone. I think Hamilton puts it best talk less and smile more. You know It's we're at a point now where people are advocating for themselves more than they were previously, and they'll call it out.
00:22:18:02 - 00:22:42:14
Speaker 2
That actually will call it out if it's not working for them. So, you know, taking time to understand and really go look what's working here. What what is it that you need as a human and really listening and taking that on board, unpacking it further. Because it's one thing to sit there and go, yep yep yep yep. It's another thing to take it, unpack it, ask questions and do something with it.
00:22:42:16 - 00:22:52:05
Speaker 2
So I think that as I said, that authenticity piece is something that people are looking for. And I think starting to demand it more now as we move forward.
00:22:52:07 - 00:23:11:00
Speaker 1
And I guess take the idea of leaving something behind, is, is there a, a type of leadership attribute, perhaps, that once was something that people thought was really important, that may not have that same level of relevance today as it once did?
00:23:11:02 - 00:23:35:02
Speaker 2
I think that those leaders that would lead with fear, I think that is very much in the past. Now, I, you know, I've had the misfortune to be led by someone who who did exactly that and to be so, you know, so almost scared to go to work because you didn't want to upset somebody is not the way anyone should have to turn up to work.
00:23:35:04 - 00:24:01:14
Speaker 2
And so I think that, you know, that sort of stuff should absolutely be left in the past. I think a more collaborative and engaging approach is where it is that we're heading. And as I said just before, that ability to be a bit vulnerable allows you to create a relationship on another level, which then builds loyalty, where people will follow and people will do what you ask, and they will evolve and grow together with you.
00:24:01:16 - 00:24:19:02
Speaker 1
Really interesting. I yeah, Gordon Ramsay comes to my mind when you are talking about the the person in the experience. You don't want to you don't want to have Amalia, you. You've come off mute. Is there something that you wanted to add to this conversation too?
00:24:19:04 - 00:24:47:15
Speaker 4
Echo everything that that Karen has, has said? Absolutely. I think and and I agree that it's not leading with fear where we say the gap and what the capabilities we need to build in leaders across different organizations is that ability to inspire and motivate others to communicate a really compelling vision of the future that people can find their own way to connect to, can find purpose.
00:24:47:15 - 00:25:14:24
Speaker 4
Everybody wants to find some meaning from the work that they're doing, and so you need to, as a leader, connect the organization's strategies, goals to their day to day work so everybody can feel that they're positively contributing. And Karen's bang on and exactly what individuals are expecting from their leaders in return. Often leaders are sandwiched in the middle, too, depending upon what leadership level you're at.
00:25:14:24 - 00:25:45:09
Speaker 4
Because I know the executive team and the next level up has certain expectations of that leader. So being a great leader of people is half the job, and the other half of the job is delivering the results on the remit of work that's required. And so, you know, they're often sandwiched in the middle by trying to, balance those balance those two things and hopefully deliver them both mutually successfully.
00:25:45:11 - 00:26:09:11
Speaker 3
I noticed this in the comments. Gemma had actually pointed out authenticity, and I think that is just a really important thing in this day and age that we have come from leadership well leadership that is always, well, not always, but being painted as the strong and controlling and authoritative kind of person who's a little bit scary. But I think, you know, leading with humility and authenticity.
00:26:09:11 - 00:26:29:10
Speaker 3
I think if I think back to some of the most amazing leaders I have ever worked for are the ones that were able to share when things were really hard. I recall, you know, when we were rolling lockdown and it was difficult and there was a lot of scary stuff going on, and a leader getting quite emotional, where I think previously that would have been seen as all weakness and they can't hold themselves together.
00:26:29:12 - 00:26:50:21
Speaker 3
It was so powerful and so lovely to see that person actually being vulnerable and leaning in. My respect just went through the roof to that person and I think it actually brought us all closer together, and it created a safe place for people to actually say, you know what? I'm actually not doing okay. Today I'm really struggling.
00:26:50:23 - 00:27:17:12
Speaker 3
And people just leaned in and supported each other, and it was contagious. I think it just brought this beautiful humility across the organization. And closeness and therefore collaborative, you know, I guess the opportunity to be more collaborative and lean in and be honest with each other. And we still got stuff done. You know, productivity was still there, but it was this beautiful understanding and that really came from, you know, a great leader that was able to lead with authenticity and vulnerability.
00:27:17:14 - 00:27:28:14
Speaker 3
And it was a real strength. I don't think that is a weakness at all where, you know, maybe 20 or 30 years ago it would have been painted as, you know, a weakness and someone being too emotional.
00:27:28:16 - 00:27:51:00
Speaker 2
But you think about how that made you feel and how much more invested you became because of that, in vulnerability and because of the way that that person behaved. Yeah. And what their role modeling for the rest of you and how, you know, I'm not going to say that you blindly follow that, but you are so much more likely to offer your loyalty and to dig in when you need to dig in.
00:27:51:02 - 00:27:54:16
Speaker 2
You know, I think that that is absolutely the way of the future.
00:27:54:18 - 00:28:00:23
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah, it really is. It creates a safe space. And that is so important. We need safe spaces today.
00:28:01:01 - 00:28:03:15
Speaker 2
We need a lot more safe spaces, that's for sure.
00:28:03:17 - 00:28:29:21
Speaker 1
I think, you know, listening to this conversation, something that resonates very strongly, it hasn't been said, but it's been kind of semi implied. Is this the importance of approachability? As, as leaders this often, when you're early in your career, you're starting off or you're at that midpoint, that idea of approaching an executive, A senior director, just CEO can seem very daunting.
00:28:29:23 - 00:28:49:13
Speaker 1
And I think there is a role and responsibility that, leaders often need to have or need to show is that they are approachable and that there isn't necessarily some, although in an organizational structure, on paper, it looks like this please still come to me, with questions feel like, you know, there is a dialog, an open way for us to communicate.
00:28:49:13 - 00:29:03:06
Speaker 1
And I think that that approachability piece followed very nicely into how, you know, it's successful. In my, experience, successful leaders have, have been and, I've experienced.
00:29:03:08 - 00:29:24:05
Speaker 2
That demonstrates the care though, Oscar. And I think that that's what it comes down to. It's like if I'm being approachable, then I care about you. I care about the organization. I care about our commercial success. But knowing that that you can be approached. Yeah. It just it's a I think it's a game changer. I really do
00:29:24:07 - 00:29:43:16
Speaker 1
Absolutly, Emily, I'm going to jump over to you and I'm going to ask you about what trends, what forces, such as technology, new work models, or social change do you think will most shape how leaders, lead their teams in the next few years?
00:29:43:18 - 00:30:23:05
Speaker 4
Look, I know everybody is probably really, tired of the rhetoric around AI, but the reality is you will be leading an AI team member. And let me give you some real examples of how this will be game changing. There are companies already using AI, for example, for those of us in HR where there's an enterprise bargaining agreement and the a team member has been created with AI who's been fed all of the previous EBA’s any other background information, and they are helping the HR team strategize on an EBA negotiation.
00:30:23:07 - 00:30:45:09
Speaker 4
Now, they are a valuable member of the team. So as a leader, that is a new world you are navigating. I mean, if you apply some of this fundamentals of still, you know, an individual approach and how is everybody, you know, are people feeling threatened by an AI team member? How does this all work, all of those sorts of things?
00:30:45:11 - 00:31:05:02
Speaker 4
You're also always going to be dealing with the fear of people losing their jobs to those sorts of things. And that isn't going to go away. But I, I, you know, I've followed the World Economic Forum for years. I've read their jobs and skills reports for years, and we've actually been saying the same things. We just slap a different label on it.
00:31:05:02 - 00:31:28:01
Speaker 4
Right? Because I can tell you, for at least the last ten years, we've been saying 30 to 40% of the skills you use today, you will not use in the next 3 to 5 years. So we've kind of been seeing it, but absolutely, the rapid scale and pace of it, you know, it is picking up. So you you do need to get good at learning as a leader.
00:31:28:03 - 00:31:50:06
Speaker 4
And also be really good. There's a couple of other things. Change, change, not leading change and leading others through change and helping others through change. And also I had I just yesterday I had a general manager ask me and say I'm really good at managing my own resilience. I actually don't know how to foster resilience in others.
00:31:50:08 - 00:32:18:24
Speaker 4
And so, you know, you needed all of these things you need is a skill for yourself. And then you're also learning how to foster and encourage those, those skills in others. There is one hot tip, kind of not connected, but a little bit connected, that I just wanted to throw in before I forget, because we were talking about approachability, and I know many people are looking to either step up into leadership or take that next leadership move.
00:32:19:01 - 00:32:45:06
Speaker 4
And my call out is always, who is advocating for you when you are not in the room? And it can not only be your direct leader they are not enough. They will not make the difference. So coming back to this approachability and building relationships, because the human side will still dominate and is still going to be super critically important, is being known.
00:32:45:08 - 00:33:08:13
Speaker 4
And having good relationships outside of your own narrow sphere will absolutely help you advance your career and help you be a better leader. Because also it does two things and I'm always following up. You know, I'm an inherently lazy person. If I can do two things with one action, I'm going to do it right. And so we're talking about the approachability.
00:33:08:13 - 00:33:31:10
Speaker 4
We're talking about building relationships. If I know the business better, I can do a better job. If the business knows me Win Win, when that next opportunity comes up, when there's a gap. That person might think of me or at least ask me the question, would I be interested? Right? So, you know, it's all a relationship. It's all a two way street.
00:33:31:10 - 00:34:00:08
Speaker 4
Some people might call me Machiavellian. I am not, but I do think one of the dirty words in leadership has been, political savvy. And I can tell you you need it. As you get more senior in the organization and you are probably being naive if you think you don't, we do just need to rip the dirty word label off it, because if you use it for good and not evil, it's okay.
00:34:00:10 - 00:34:27:06
Speaker 1
And I just ask you a question like it is very I guess if for those people who work in hybrid environments, coming to this point about being present, how important or what do you think of, the importance of people physically coming into an office at being present versus and how does that kind of support this conversation that you're having around?
00:34:27:08 - 00:34:33:02
Speaker 1
I guess for your own, for someone's own progression is does that play a part?
00:34:33:04 - 00:35:06:18
Speaker 4
Visibility plays a part. How visible you are. You can use various channels. Now, the unfortunate reality of the people sitting at the top of boards, they are still attached to old forms of power structures. Those old forms of power structures are used to leading, I lead if I can see you. Okay, so we are still battling that now during Covid the power base shifted and so the power was in the employees hands.
00:35:06:18 - 00:35:38:17
Speaker 4
And we had a great opportunity to prove that we can be just as productive when we're at home some of the time. The most organizations are swinging back, and I have been at board tables and executive tables fighting this fight constantly. I'm exhausted. I have the data and research and the science to back me up, and I still end up losing the fight and forcing people back into the office more often than not.
00:35:38:19 - 00:36:04:09
Speaker 4
Okay, generally, what's happening. So while that is still there, that's going to be the environment that you're in. But, I would say the reality is if you work from home full time and the leaders in your organization or the people making the decisions on who gets the next job are those that are physically in you need to go in some of the time.
00:36:04:11 - 00:36:39:17
Speaker 4
I wouldn't I'm not an advocate. I'm a big advocate for finding a win win solution, you know, so don't sell your soul for those sorts of things. But be realistic about what the realities are of the business that you're working into and the people that you're working with. Because that that will make a decision a difference. Someone ask me what political savvy means in a leadership capability world, political savvy means how do I navigate all of the other decision makers, and other leaders, that are that I have to work with?
00:36:39:19 - 00:37:03:01
Speaker 4
And it really is understanding, decision, you know, who's got decision making, who's got the most influence and how do you navigate and influence across that sort of environment. So Korn Ferry does a really nice, descriptor. we can AI it they'll come up with a good, just, you know, a list of behaviors and ways to be more politically savvy.
00:37:03:03 - 00:37:15:18
Speaker 4
Maybe there's a better label that will make it not so unappealing. But, particularly if if anyone on the call has aspirations for executive leadership, you will not succeed without it.
00:37:15:20 - 00:37:39:07
Speaker 1
Thank you for that. Now, I want to I wanted to make a little bit of time for audience questions, and we've got a list. As long as my daughter's Christmas list to Santa. So I'm going to probably I, I'm going to focus on one. And, each of you have got one minute to answer this, this question from your perspective, would you say soft skills hold more important in leadership role than technical skills?
00:37:39:11 - 00:38:10:07
Speaker 4
The short answer is yes. Because particularly as you get more senior and you are working across multiple teams, you can't be the expert in everything. Plus, you don't need to be the expert in everything now because, you know, I, AI makes getting information so much quicker and easier. Anyway, so absolutely. But not at the expense of, so you they are more important.
00:38:10:07 - 00:38:16:17
Speaker 4
They will get you further. You still have to be knowledgeable in some areas.
00:38:16:19 - 00:38:37:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. I was going to say it's a bit of a balance, really. It's being able to bring the soft skills and develop those to a point where, you know, it's almost like you're being the Pied Piper where people will follow you. So then if you need to delegate to those people to be able to manage the technical issues that you've got, the trust and empowerment to do that.
00:38:37:22 - 00:38:41:06
Speaker 2
So yeah. No, I'm, I'm slowly with Amalia there.
00:38:41:13 - 00:38:43:04
Speaker 1
Sarah.
00:38:43:06 - 00:39:02:01
Speaker 3
Yes. No, I, I echo what both people are saying, who both leaders are saying here. It's, it really is that that delicate balance. They go hand in hand like they have to be that that fine art of of knowing when to lean in and knowing when to kind of step back. But, you know, we have leaders out there that are not the experts.
00:39:02:01 - 00:39:23:24
Speaker 3
It's about conducting the orchestra. Right? And making sure everyone is supported. They know what's going on. So there's clarity communicating really effectively so we know where we're going and empowering people, but also keeping a finger on the pulse to see are there any people sinking here? And how do I, you know, check in and make sure that they feel supported?
00:39:24:01 - 00:39:46:04
Speaker 3
Am I, you know, growing my people and allowing them, to come into my sphere to learn from me? Like, you know, it's that transparency piece as well. I think it's really important. And we were talking earlier, you know, around, that visibility in the organization. I know so many people like remote first, remote first, remote first.
00:39:46:04 - 00:40:10:06
Speaker 3
And yes, I need that too. But there's also a lot of people that want that, that are really in that early stage of your career. So if you are aspiring to be a team leader or a manager later down the track, your biggest learnings are going to be from watching the leaders around you and the opportunities, coming up in those more casual conversations where they're like, hey, has anyone got five minutes to help me on this?
00:40:10:12 - 00:40:32:02
Speaker 3
Put your hand up and get involved, whether you know what it's about or not, but you will just absorb so much knowledge. You'll see how they conduct themselves. Even if you get to sitting on a meeting or a project discussion, you're going to learn so much more about leadership and how to lead, or how not to lead in those situations than sitting at home in a remote situation.
00:40:32:02 - 00:40:49:05
Speaker 3
There's a lot that does happen, and hybrid is just so wonderful. Like, I'm I'm all for hybrid. Anyone that wants full onsite, like that's just showing that you don't trust your people and that really sucks. But, you know, I think we need to allow for these moments. And even as leaders, I think that's another really important part.
00:40:49:07 - 00:41:02:22
Speaker 3
You know, rather than rushing forward into some of these meetings like is they are they people within your team or within the business that it could be a really great development opportunity for them just to come in and observe and to learn.
00:41:02:24 - 00:41:26:00
Speaker 1
You you've touched on something. I want to jump into this as a last, last moment question, because it's popped up a couple of times that, from many people have have kind of without the title of leadership, it's not within their actual title, but from an H.R perspective, how can someone show that they've led a team on their resumé if they've never been formally a manager?
00:41:26:00 - 00:41:29:19
Speaker 1
This seems to be a burning question from the audience.
00:41:29:21 - 00:41:51:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, this is a really yeah, this is a great one. And I think it's it's looking at where have you led projects or where have you helped guide a decision or when did your initiative land? I think we all lead in different ways without being a leader. You know, it can be in a volunteer capacity outside of work.
00:41:51:08 - 00:42:06:23
Speaker 3
There are so many different ways, but just start looking at what are the different aspects of it. There are a lot of leaders out there that don't really lead, but there are a lot of brilliant people within an organization that you would consider a mentor or a leader in some form of capacity. So look at some of those behaviors.
00:42:07:00 - 00:42:18:00
Speaker 3
You know, we might actually be an expert in something within within our team that people lean on. You all come to you because you're the person that knows how to get that done. That's leading.
00:42:18:02 - 00:42:26:06
Speaker 1
Wonderful. Thank you. Karen. Amalia one last response with the 30s that we have left to that comment.
00:42:26:08 - 00:42:50:22
Speaker 4
To add to that, I would say great leaders step into the void when there is one. So look for a gap. If there isn't a project you can get on board with or something like that, those sorts of opportunities, then look for a void and just step into it and beg for forgiveness later, right? So, if you're delivering positive results, then they’re, they're not going to be angry about it.
00:42:50:24 - 00:43:10:13
Speaker 2
It's very true. Develop a skill that you are brilliant at and people will flock to you. Become the become the go to person for something specific in your organization, and you automatically become the leader in that space. But I think it's important to also take people on the journey with you. Yeah, and that's that. That is the true leadership.
00:43:10:13 - 00:43:17:05
Speaker 2
It's one thing to be great, but it's another thing to develop and grow those people around you and take them with you. Yeah.
00:43:17:07 - 00:43:19:15
Speaker 3
Really stay curious and collaborate.
00:43:19:17 - 00:43:42:04
Speaker 1
Thats the one. Sarah and Amalia, Karen, thank you so much for a wonderful conversation. Everyone online, thank you for being so engaged in this as well. We will send a recording to your email if you've registered. So keep your eye out for that. We will have plenty more, online events like this. So please keep our on our socials.
00:43:42:08 - 00:44:02:24
Speaker 1
We look forward to, letting you hear from other experts on a range of other topics. And of course, if you're interested in learning more upskilling, reskilling, please head to the RMIT online website and check out our range of courses when you get a chance. Enjoy the rest of the afternoon. Thank you all for your time and we look forward to seeing you all again.
