Join us for an online MBA Fireside chat, featuring Shaun Spence, Director of Fundraising, for an honest conversation about leadership, progression and stepping into more strategic roles as your career grows. Shaun will share real-world perspectives from across his career, including how leadership expectations change over time, what hiring managers look for when promoting into senior roles, and how structured learning has supported his own progression and confidence in complex decision-making.
The discussion will explore:
We’ll close with a short conversation with MBA Program Manager Deepak, unpacking what you actually learn in an MBA and how studying with RMIT Online fits alongside full-time work.
You’ll also have the opportunity to ask questions live.
Genevieve Jordan 00:00:19
Hi everyone and welcome. I'm Genevieve Jordan. We'll be kicking off this webinar in just another minute or so. I'll just allow an extra minute for people to log on in. Please bear with us; sometimes it takes a moment for people get into Zoom and get going. So bear with us— we'll start up very soon now.
00:02:04
All right, I think we will get started. Welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining us. I'm really pleased to meet with you today for this discussion on leadership. Talking about how leadership changes as responsibilities grow, what good leadership looks like, particularly thinking about the kind of complex environments we find ourselves working in.
00:02:26
I'm Genevieve Jordan. I'm a Senior Product Manager at RMIT Online. And I've been working with my colleagues in the School of Management on the design and delivery of our programs in leadership and business management.
00:02:38
But before we go too far, I would like to acknowledge the Woiwurrung and Boonwurrung people of the Eastern Kulin Nations on whose unceded lands we conduct the business of the university. I acknowledge their ancestors and elders, past and present. I also acknowledge the traditional Castanians and their ancestors of the lands and waters across Australia.
00:03:00
And today I'm joined by two panellists for our fireside chat today. We have on board with us Associate Professor Deepak Sardana.
00:03:08
Deepak is Program Manager for the MBA at RMIT and RMIT Online. Welcome, Deepak. We also have Shaun Spence. Shaun is Director of Fundraising at Bendigo Health. And Shaun is speaking with us as someone who's done an MBA and also someone who now holds a leadership role in health. So I'm sure both Deepak and Shaun will have a lot of interesting insights to share with us.
00:03:32
In terms of our agenda today, really the focus is on a conversation about leadership. What does leadership look like as people's responsibilities grow? As people become more involved in strategic decision-making. And how can you confidently steer conversations at a more senior level? So that conversation is sort of the crux of our webinar today. We'll also hear a bit from Deepak about the MBA at RMIT online. What you can learn, what the experience is like for you as a student and where it can take you. And of course, we'll have time for your questions. They could be questions about leadership generally or questions about the MBA program more specifically. So I encourage you to pop your questions into the chat as you think of them. We might get to them as we go, but we'll certainly make sure that we can address as many as possible toward the end as well.
00:04:21
I do want to draw your attention to the fact that we are recording this session. And we'll record the session afterwards and then share it with all the people who have signed up for us. So right now I'm going to hand over to Deepak to lead the conversation on leadership. So over to you, Deepak, and maybe you can introduce yourself a little bit along the way.
Deepak Sardana 00:04:40
Thank you, Genevieve.
00:04:43
For and all your RMIT online team from bringing this event alive. Really appreciate that. Team effort. And thank you, Shaun, so much for joining us on the hot seat. On this fireside chat. A little bit about myself. I am Deepak Sardana. I'm an associate professor of strategy innovation.
00:05:06
within School of Management in College of Business.
00:05:10
at RMIT.
00:05:12
I joined RMIT in 2024.
00:05:16
Early 2024. Prior to that, I was at University of South Australia. where I was a program manager for all the PG programs at the university, ensuring that they're delivered well. To the students. And I have been. Uh, my primary background, uh, has been in strategy, innovation, and entrepreneurship. And I did my PhD from ANU a long time back. It seems several years back now. And since then, I've been doing research on these areas and also writing books on that. So welcome everyone to the show.
Genevieve Jordan 00:05:56
Okay, and maybe Shaun, would you like to introduce yourself before we sort of kick off into the main conversation part?
Shaun Spence 00:06:03
Yeah, certainly. And thanks for having me. And I think this is a great, a great event that you're putting on for everyone.
00:06:09
To be honest, I was in your shoes. Anyone out there, I was in your shoes, questioning myself as to whether I wanted to do an MBA or what value it was going to bring to me, about eight years ago and uh, one of the best decisions I did and I was very, I'm unbiased in this and saying my only bias is that I have been through the MBA and the MBA myself and can't speak highly enough of what it's uh what it's done for me and that's why I'm here today to share my learnings and, and sort of, what it's, what it's aided me to do over the last eight years as well, but um, to be mentioned, I'm currently the director of fundraising at Bendigo Health. I've been here about a year, but I've had leadership experience across a number of diverse industries. So I started off in sport.
00:06:50
For anyone, I was in the NRL for a bit, those that are in the higher states of Eastern Board. I had a couple of clubs there and then went down south and managed the Hawthorne football team. Club Foundation. We had an $80 million capital campaign there that I led at the start of that and then went across into not-for-profit. So I was director of fundraising of philanthropy at Beyond Blue.
00:07:13
And then, you know, and a big part of it was the skills I learned in the MBA. I took a sideways approach and went into the world of sales and managed a national sales team in a medical device company, which opened my... So all new sorts of learnings. But then we've returned back to Bendigo with family and back to my not-for-profit space where I am now. And, you know, for those across the board funding is a big issue in any hospital so we play a really key role of bringing and diversifying the funding outside of government funds here at Bendigo Health so yeah, really really happy to be here today and again, as Genevieve mentioned, happy to answer any questions along the way or at the end as well, but thank you.
Deepak Sardana 00:07:52
Thanks. Thanks, Shaun. Quite a broad portfolio of experience right from. Health to nonprofit organization and raising a huge amount of funds.
00:08:02
It's quite a challenge. I mean, $80 million. I mean, that sounds really exciting. So, Shaun, you've led teams in environments where Uh, where there have been funding pressure and quite a lot of stakeholder expectations and also uncertainty at the same time. So, as your responsibility grew, were there any frameworks or ways of thinking you learned more, you leaned more heavily on and where did you build those? uh skill sets.
Shaun Spence 00:08:29
Yeah, definitely. I think I made a really big shift going as I sort of came into these bigger roles away from... I was very operational at first. I thought I had to do everything and... And we'll sort of day to day walk in the task. All my tasks were today's list and we get through that. But my learnings really as I grew individually and through my studies really came back to. how we can take a bigger picture approach to things and sort of a lot of businesses will have their overarching purpose, but how are we actually aligning our operational to that daily? So that really strategic lens came in, and even, you know, a lot of the time I'll go into meetings now with So just rather starting with the agenda, starting with the outcome or the purpose, working your way up to how you can get that at the end. And that always aligns back to the purpose. That's a really key framework for me. I think sometimes we can get stuck in, I can tell you, especially in health, you can get stuck in meetings for meetings sake or your operational sort of can deviate from the purpose. And I think that was a really key learning for me is almost reminding myself. daily, even by the hour as to what our overall purpose is.
00:09:33
in our daily activities actually achieving that. So that was certainly from a strategic point of view the other big learning for me um was individualisation. And I talk about that a lot from managing staff, leading staff. I sort of came into leadership roles expecting... everyone to be motivated by the same thing as me and to work the same style as me and to and have the same strengths as me and it was really um sort of experience um that led me to the path of actually both external stakeholders, learning what's going to motivate them and actually get yourself in front of them, but internally as well, actually taking the time to learn your team, your colleagues, your staff, how they operate, how you're best going to communicate with them, what are their strengths and elevate their strengths. Um, rather than I think, a lot of the time we go and say, 'What are our weaknesses?' Let's work on that. Really having a strength-based model is important to me. And so I sit down with my teams a lot of the time, all the time, and talk about what their strengths are and actually how we can utilise that.
00:10:35
If someone's really, really comfortable and strong at stakeholder management, how do we actually then apply that to? Financial management or other parts of their role that are weaknesses, rather than try to elevate a weakness? That strength-based model is a really big one for me. And again, that just takes the time of learning the individual. A lot of that comes down to questioning. We do the same thing when we're talking about pressure for funding.
00:10:57
The first thing we'll do is ask questions so you know we go into external funders and we're trying to learn as much about them talking. Get them comfortable sharing their story, rather than going with a cookie-cutter approach of 'here's my presentation that I've presented to everyone.' 'Actually,' I say, 'how do we individualize that? Knowing, having the patience, that the outcome— going back to what I said earlier— the outcome of the purpose of that first meeting might not be to... To get $100,000, it might be to get another meeting and then another meeting and then the outcome being. It might take five or six meetings, but then, when you know you're going to that meeting, that's the purpose. So there are a couple of things that have developed over time, and a lot of that came from some of the studies I did as well as the experience.
Deepak Sardana 00:11:40
That's interesting. A lot of things to learn about critical thinking, problem solving, having a helicopter overview of the organization, and taking everyone along and also relationship building that you rightly emphasized as part of your learnings.
00:11:58
Those are really valuable insights. So looking back, what caps do you feel most acutely? When he first stepped into this broader leadership. Roll. And how did he go about filling them? Was it primarily through the studies or?
00:12:14
Something else?
Shaun Spence 00:12:15
Yeah. I think, as I mentioned, one of them just there was just this, you know, um, I suppose expectation or lack of time and energy I was expending on and actually getting to know how I could motivate people the best. And again, thinking that, you know, I was... you know, I'm motivated a certain way and my work ethics a certain way, but people aren't necessarily that. I remember. You know, I. During the course, I... That I did, I met someone up here and they mentioned how they'd been in the same role for... 20, 25 years and didn't want a promotion and all that. And actually, I couldn't get my head past that. But then I learned, you know, by individualization and those kind of things that people are motivated by. family, by challenges within their current role, all those kind of things. That's just one example of that, that I really had to take this. You know, almost learning approach in every conversation I have with staff around actually getting to know them better before making any assumptions.
00:13:07
And then the second one, which I think all leaders— a lot of leaders I've met— struggle with is delegation. I think especially when you first go into leadership, you think, you know, it's quicker almost to do it yourself and those kind of things. I think a big learning for me was how to take... I suppose how to take thrill, excitement and energy from seeing your teen grow and that kind of thing rather than And it might take longer. You know, sometimes I'll still do that in terms of, you know, is there a task I could get done in five minutes? And it might take longer if I send it to someone else. And I still have to almost stop myself purposely and consciously think about that to know, hey, it's actually a learning experience for them and a growth experience rather than it being a time-critical, you know, or laziness me sending it on. It's actually experiencing them to learn. So I think. I think that were two of the really main things. But I learned along the way. And probably the third is... I got this sort of saying, it's... you know, don't carry your divots. And I think a lot of the time, you know, getting past mistakes and getting past errors and treating them as learning experiences, rather than, you know, I'll never forget, you know, I had one experience where I thought I had some funding across the line, but it sort of fell apart in a phone call.
00:14:19
And I answered the phone straight after that and I was flat during that, and that sort of rubbed off and it started impacting my future work. So even just that learning of taking a step back and sort of, you know, next job, what's next, and taking that positive attitude is something that I've developed, I needed to develop over time, because at the start I didn't have that.
Deepak Sardana 00:14:39
It's a lot of people's management. And you rightly said, you know, people may have different motivations in terms of their... Progression or promotions, or you know, what they want to do. So, when you are hiring or promoting someone into senior roles, what signals tell you that someone is ready for that strategic responsibility. And not just for the operational excellence. Are there any particular traits that you look for in the individuals or in the candidates? And does postgraduate education resonate with that? Any idea or bringing any skills to it?
Shaun Spence 00:15:18
Yeah, definitely. I think I can almost tell. And this is not a skill that I've got is, I think there's a trend there when I can see someone that's sort of ready in that instance. And it's very much around... Know we're asking the questions anymore where they're presenting back to us. It's a lot of their um, their goals or their opportunities that they identify a bigger picture than um, you know, increasing funding in the next month by X is actually them having a longer term plan, a longer term vision, and again, lying. That's a purpose. I think the other thing really is the validation. How they explain their reasoning for strategy or thoughts. You know, I think you can see, you probably see the opposite as well when someone's not ready for that stage. Is that the moment you scratch me? The service or ask a follow-up question, it's not there. They've got this great idea on a surface level, but um, there's no actually— haven't taken the time to actually validate that and make sure it's a sustainable idea going forward. So I think that again, that time and energy that people take into um, preparing um, to propose an idea or propose an opportunity, and taking the time to think of the even your contingency plans and all those kind of things, and how they're going to execute it, rather than um, Either coming with a problem
00:16:29
or coming with a... a short-term solution, they're the ones where I really know that they're starting to get ready for that experience. And it all starts, I think, at the very start. of you know changing that and it's common in leisure you've probably heard a lot it's it's At the very start, changing that, coming to me with a... a solution rather than a problem so i really encourage my team in that sense that rather than hey This has happened. It's, you know, I'd love for them to come and say, hey, this is happening. I believe this is the best outcome. And that's a small shift that they can start to take. And then it sort of grows from there into a wider thinking.
00:17:03
Certainly, when I interview people, when we're hiring in, I can tell straight away from someone who's had that sort of broader experience for an MBA in terms of how they think logically, like that, and how they actually broaden themselves.
00:17:16
You know, you can see they might have only had experience in one industry, but they're able to actually bring in learnings outside of that industry that you can instantly see will be transferable, due to the skills they've learned, and they can fall back on that. And to be honest, that was me.
00:17:31
I've had at least three interviews where people have directly asked about my MBA, what my learnings were, and even pointed out. I remember one person or one employer mentioned it. For them, it showed. A level of time management commitment and determination to actually take it on and get through me— taking the skip from not-for-profit to medical device sales— and you couldn't think of a broader leap between two industries.
00:18:00
They took a chance on me because they sort of knew I was going to actually articulate in the interview the learnings from the MBA and the learnings I'd taken, not just for not-for-profit, how I was actually able to, I was suitable for the role to bring transferable skills that I'd learned outside my current employment. So it gave me a whole new... set of experiences and and um i suppose frameworks to talk about—um— then sort of got me through the door. I can see that in other people too, it's yeah, they might. I hired someone a few years back where that had no management experience at all. They could lean on their experience in their MBA to talk about their management experience and their learnings, which then got them across the line. And again, I took an estimated punt on them and they've turned out fantastically. So I think... it's a, it's a really um, a really strong extra skill set to come.
Deepak Sardana 00:18:53
Hmm. And quite often, you know, you see that when you're having a discussion with uh either board members or donors or executives, you know, this peak is certain sort of language relating to the strategy, finance, and the impact. You know, how do you think that MBA gave you a sense of confidence in in building that communication skills and also showing up in your discussions and day-to-day work.
Shaun Spence 00:19:25
Oh, yeah. And this is probably one of the key loans I took from the MBA, I think. Again, I was very operational at the start and I think a lot of my... Especially if I think about communicating at board level and exec level. Um, I sort of learned pretty quickly that you know, what I trying to articulate what they actually wanted to hear and what they were actually going to get benefit from. And it's similar, you know. What I said at the start there about going into a meeting and defining the purpose first. I think I was going into meetings, especially, you know, board meetings and when you're strategic that, and it was almost like a validation of everything you've done and what your team's done and, hey, we've achieved this and we've achieved that and we've achieved this. But at the end of the day, if you come back to the purpose of the board and the purpose of your audience, they're going to be judged on governance. They're going to be judged on financial management and strategic planning. So I really sort of go into those meetings now really reframing who's my audience. Um, what's their role and what's the purpose of this discussion? And it's actually really—I think what that does to it it engages them, you know. So the first few board meetings were, again, me.
00:20:28
Blasting a big report and here's some graphs and here's some stats and all that. But, if you can actually articulate your message to your audience correctly, which was a big learning from my MBA, was then you simplify your messaging and you get a more engaged audience to actually interact with you and it becomes a two-way conversation. And I think I learned that especially. Through the MBA win. The opportunity to present to different peer groups and businesses we partnered with at the time was, yeah, these are... you know, very busy people all the time. And I don't want to hear all the nuts and bolts of it. It's that grab that's going to stay with them and stick with them and those kinds of things. And that was a really key learning for me to, I suppose, build trust with people as well. I think, you know, if we can talk at that level. it's almost like they didn't trust you with the operational stuff that not you're trying to avoid questions, but it builds that trust that if you're talking at this level and they understand you're delivering the messages that they want, then that trust for you to do your day-to-day job from a board
00:21:28
level and exec level becomes a lot easier as well because they're just letting you run with that. I think that sort of um you know changing my message for different audiences was a really key one as well and similar when you know we're asking for funding how you ask for funding in front of Um, one person individually and actually understanding It comes back to that individualization model. We have, um, we sort of map out all our potential funders and go actually to the level of this person will respond better to a one-to-one or we should get this person in a group of 10 people where there might be a bit of motivation. By ego or this person should be wired to 100 person event belt so it's really and then the messages delivered at those different levels are very different as well so really again it all comes back from that starting point of knowing your audience and communicating that really effectively to get the purpose that you want out of it.
Deepak Sardana 00:22:19
Hmm-hmm. And uh.
00:22:22
As you have grown in your leadership roles, what is the definition of success for you? I mean, how has it shifted just beyond your own individual performance?
00:22:33
Has it shifted to organization impact or? Or something else. I mean, if, you know, I would just— That would be great if you can. No, definitely.
Shaun Spence 00:22:42
I think for me, it's always... um, two parts. It's organizational purpose. So where I am now, you know, it's not even about— If we raise $2 million, $3 million, $4 million, $5 million, whatever it is, what impact are we delivering? So what is that money actually buying? I mean, our activity is actually helping that. So, you know, for instance, at the moment... We're trying to find a new innovation in breast cancer to help patients in regional Victoria have access to a new treatment of care. How much that costs is irrelevant. It's always come back to actually if we can deliver that, it's the impact on the patients and that broader picture which then motivates. Both for yourself and the team. So certainly coming back to organizational purpose, but the second part being growth in my team. I think, you know, as a leader, it's not like you're sort of having an exit strategy already, but you almost have to always say.
00:23:34
You know, one of the goals is to get yourself redundant to a degree where you've got people coming through and you've got a leadership pipeline. You've got a real, you know, contingency plan if something was to happen and that kind of stuff. For me, the other goal and the other satisfaction I take is really growth in my team members. And we do that. We have shared KPIs. So just because it's not about me setting a KPI for a staff, I'm just as responsible for that KPI as they are because we need to work towards it, especially in their development plan.
00:24:02
And we sort of framework that up around, you know, a lot of our conversations and reviews. You know, we have a performance review.
00:24:09
But more frequently, we have development plan reviews. And that's all about, not about their day-to-day performance, about... Where they want to get to in one year, three years, five years, and what are we actually actioning to get them there, rather than it being a tack-on to the performance review or an end of conversation in that regard. I think, yeah, growth of individual and organizational purpose are the two parts for me where it used to be. To be honest, it used to be, you know, how much sales I was converting or what I was doing, what my pipeline was like or what my achievements were. It's completely shifted with that new perspective.
00:24:42
Thank you.
Genevieve Jordan 00:24:44
I might just jump in here. I feel like that's been a really insightful discussion. Thank you, Shaun and Deepak. And I love that, Shaun, you've come back to this idea of purpose multiple times, thinking about the purpose of the organisation and of yourself. As a leader and how that's changed over time, so thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you. I'd like to turn now to thinking about the MBA program at RMIT. And Deepak, I know you're well positioned just to... give a bit of an overview to those who are on the call of how the program works, how it might be tailored to individual objectives and what people can get out of it. So if you're happy to move on to that, I can see we've got some questions coming through in the chat, which is fantastic. We do still have time at the end of this. We'll make sure we'll come back to as many of those as we can as well.
Deepak Sardana 00:25:30
Sure, sure.
00:25:32
Thanks. Thanks a lot, Jenny, for that. Uh, MBA at RMIT, is offered both online as well as face-to-face. I will be talking more about Uh, uh, RMITO, which is an online version of our MPA. So, uh, It's a very contemporary MBA, if you like. I mean, it's designed for today's business world. It's very flexible, fully online, and built for people who are working while they are studying.
00:26:02
So the programs help you just learn. not just learn about the business concept, but how you actually apply them. In the real workplace and real situations.
00:26:13
In terms of the structures, it's like any standard program. It's important that you know that there are 192 credit points. Which is almost you learn— you have to do 16 different courses of 12 credit points each.
00:26:26
So typically you finish a program in one and a half to three years.
00:26:31
Depending on how how much you are able to accelerate yourself. Or if you have got any credit points because of your prior learning. So uh. And additionally, I mean, since we run the courses across multiple teaching periods, terima kasih. In a year, it allows you. allows you to be flexible and also allows you to be. You know, accelerate or pace up as you would like. Choo-choo. Depending on your world and life situation.
00:26:59
At its core, the program blends some of the core subjects that could be leadership, strategy, innovation, finance, marketing. These are the subjects that give you a very holistic understanding of the organization and builds a very solid foundation. To solve complex problems and think very critically about the organization. So as Shaun was talking about having it—a real helicopter view of the organization, not just getting loss in operational details, but also having strategic view of the whole organization. So these are essential skills you will use every day as you step into senior roles.
00:27:39
Then, as you progress in your MBA program, you get to choose electives. Uh, which are really aligned to the industry. And there are several minor programs that we run, at least six of them. Which are very future-focused.
00:27:55
Examples, you know, digital transformation, project management, sustainable enterprise, people analytics. A lot have been spoken by Shaun about people management as well. And of course, we've put a lot of emphasis on design thinking. That's one of our major minus as well. So you can tailor yourself. Uh, you know, direction of study, what you want. And what your career to look like.
00:28:18
So what that means is that you're not just earning a qualification, you're actually building your qualification along with us. There are so many opportunities that that are available to you.
00:28:30
By joining us at RMIT online. En bra program.
00:28:35
A very distinctive feature is our business consulting capstone. A course where you bring everything together and tackle real-world business challenge for a client organization, you know.
00:28:49
And it's a work integrated learning philosophy. Where you have an opportunity to demonstrate your static thinking. Problem solving and leadership in a project that has a tangible impact.
00:29:03
And it's exactly what employees are looking for from you in the future, as well as in the leadership role.
00:29:10
So, if you ask me, you know, in short, the whole MBA. You will develop a very strong analytical skills, leadership capabilities, and a very broad perspective on business that includes not just financial and operational decision capabilities, but also many other different facets of it. For example, social, ethical, uh, digital considerations— which are really really important and in fact, and it's impacting the whole organizations and even the business model. So all of which are very, very critical for today's business environments. All of those skills will be brought together. Uh, within the MBA program.
00:29:50
And I must say that What really stands out? is how we emphasize on the industry relevant and practical curriculum of the program. So, Arabati keeps the content very, very up-to-date. And, um, and aligned to what's happening in today's business environment and the online delivery makes it. Very manageable for you. To work alongside your program. Alongside your work and do this program. So it's about your Uh, giving the mindset tools that makes you feel more confident to lead. In a way and make an impact. Within the workplace that you are. That you're in. It could be. Not-for-profit organization. What could be for-profit organizations? So those broad... set of skill sets RR. Really important and meaningful. Just as Shaun talked about, he took those skill sets. And showed his leadership position. Not just in fundraising, but also in the health industry as well.
00:30:53
So of course, in delivering all those promises, we draw on RMIT's AAA pedagogy, which is active, applied, and authentic. Learning approach where we encourage students to engage with Problems är- industry problems and the end. apply those tools. all the frameworks that we are learning within the course or different courses.
00:31:17
And many of those assessments are really authentic. These are what you will be expected to do within your workplace or in the real industries. so it So we all bring together with these two political pedagogy, which is active, applied, and authentic. So, and.
00:31:35
It is all done with an approach that, of course, we try to build the theoretical knowledge, but at the same time, our MBA is quite practical and seeks to make you career ready. and bring on those capabilities that you can. Take on the leadership roles.
00:31:51
So that was. Quite in a nutshell about our MPU program. Um, And as I said, it's delivered. Across multiple teaching. Peters. Makes it very, very flexible for you. Um, And of course, our MIT Business School.
00:32:09
Is AACSP accreditation is one of the very prestigious accreditation globally. Where if you, uh, business schools, only less than 5% of business schools have got that accreditation. That just symbolizes or signals that how much we place emphasis on our quality.
00:32:28
Of teaching.
00:32:30
Thank you. If there are any questions, I'm happy to take as well.
Genevieve Jordan 00:32:36
Thank you, Deepak. Thanks for that overview of the program and for emphasising the AAE CSB accreditation too, because I know that's really important to a lot of people. We do have lots of questions that are coming through. Thank you. We've got people from Melbourne, Brisbane and beyond. So thanks, everyone, who's popped in questions. Feel free to add some more. Um, we've got a question which I'd like to kick off with first and I might throw to you, Shaun: a question what would you say to someone who's capable at their job but unsure if they're MBA material, whatever that might be. But maybe you've got an idea on that front.
Shaun Spence 00:33:09
Yeah, look, I think I was probably in that frame of mind myself, I think, you know, and I was thinking about it today as well, and I was thinking about what I got out of it, and I've probably talked a lot about it professionally, but I think... I got a lot about it personally, and a lot of that was confidence. You know, I wanted... you know. take on these learnings and realize that, you know, there's no such thing as MBA already. And I've talked about individualization of. with other people. A lot of that's coming back to One minute, and then I talk. Me as well was like, I can do things my way. With that saying, with... take on the learnings and take on the thinking but adapt it to my way of working as well so i think I was the same. I sort of got through my bachelor of business and I always thought of, yeah, the MBA is this class of people that potentially I was only, I was leading a very small team at the time. Like, was I actually going to add value to business capstone subjects? and all that, but it really just actually, a lot of it from a personal point of view, built my confidence. Yes, you mentioned the capstone study there. I still am in touch with the business that I did my capstone project for from a mentorship point of view.
00:34:14
And I remember walking away from that going, wow, if I can tackle... If I can tackle this project, then they're impressed with me. All of a sudden, I am MBA material and those kinds of things as well. So I think a big part of it is just taking the leap. I had all the doubts. If you're on here, I had the doubts around how I'm going to manage my time, how am I going to do it online. All those kinds of things and it just got to the point of just taking a chance. Really and I I can only speak on my behalf that it was uh it built me as a really um uh more professional but also on a personal level like a really confident leader that um sort of I know I could stand with I was doing a lot of things other leaders that I aspired to that I was able to hold my own in that so it sort of built that confidence for me too.
Genevieve Jordan 00:34:56
Brilliant. Thank you so much. And Deepak, I wonder if you can share your thoughts too, as the program manager, you will see students coming into the program and maybe you can share with us how people know when they're sort of ready to take that step.
Deepak Sardana 00:35:09
Absolutely, Genevieve. I can provide both the perspective. Long, long time here, you know. Uh, I was an MBA student myself and I have been fortunate to teach MBA students as well as executive MBA students. So I really understand, you know, that particular question. So, yes.
00:35:29
The key thing is what MBA program offers you is it shatters the narrow functional domains. We often get stuck in that, you know, to have a understanding of connecting the dots logically across the organization.
00:35:44
For the benefit of the organization, not just your narrow. KPI is not, you know, if so, for example, if you're an HR or financial or operational. Going beyond those functional domains and looking organization holistically. How static decisions you're making that will have an impact at the organization level. Not just your functional level. I think that was. That is very important. Part of learning. of the MBA programme. And then, what Shaun talked about, how do you communicate it?
00:36:14
To the stakeholders. And those stakeholders are varied. You know, from boards, your top management team, to, of course, your suppliers, customers, your... your people who are working for you within at the shop level. So all of those things are important, how you communicate them, and there are different communication strategies for that. So how you logically connect all those dots and how you communicate that, I think those are really important skills. That you learned during MBA. And I think that is an important part of it.
Genevieve Jordan 00:36:49
Yeah, thank you, Deepak. Thanks for highlighting those aspects as well. Another question that we've got is, I think one for Shaun, really. What was happening in your career when you started thinking seriously about doing an MBA?
00:37:04
What was it?
Shaun Spence 00:37:06
It's a great question. I think for me, you know, I've always... you know, to be honest, I sort of, I went down a... career sporting pathway thinking that was going to be my thing and then went into business and we're still probably trying to find ourselves a little bit too. The one fear or consideration I had at the time was not— Yeah.
00:37:26
It's not getting pigeonholed into, you know, this person's in sport or this person's a fundraiser or this is that. And I thought. By doing an MBA, I was going to expose me to different industries and different people that would broaden my view of the world, but also then stack up in interviews or further career opportunities. It wasn't just going to be this individual that's sort of gone down the sporting path and that's all he can do. It was that, and to be perfectly honest, it was probably a bit of an absence of strong leadership. You know, and that's not a knock on any individual, but it was. I sort of got to the path where, Um, you know, I probably wasn't learning from the board I had at the time, and sort of felt like I sort of wanted to sort of develop my own leadership because I didn't have that mentorship around me. So I think it was a really good opportunity for me then to to take that on and, uh, and again find that elsewhere, rather than just sort of hope that was going to turn up or a board member was going to change that kind of thing, take that on myself to go and find that. And MBA, I thought, was a good way of doing that.
Genevieve Jordan 00:38:24
Yeah, that's really good. Our next question is a kind of practical one about the nature of the experience from Stephanie. How many hours of study per week are required? And do we need to attend live lectures during the day? Deepak, can I throw that one to you?
Deepak Sardana 00:38:40
How many hours of studies it will take? Of course, depend on your focus and how much you're willing to put. We do provide a set of reading materials which could be essential, and then there are a set of recommended. So it really depends on, in each particular course, you are happy with just doing the essential reading material so you're wanting to go deeper into that. So, of course, there are recorded lectures, you know, there are case studies. There are all those resources and materials which are provided to you. And in the call side, so I would. Say.
00:39:26
You know, three to four hours of additional or learning experience would be good to understand that particular course per week.
Genevieve Jordan 00:39:39
Yes, I think what you're saying is, Deepak, it can be a little bit scalable depending on your own commitment. There's probably a minimum requirement to get through all of the modules.
00:39:51
Watch the webinars, but then also there's a lot of additional material available that students can pursue out of their own interest.
Deepak Sardana 00:39:58
Absolutely.
Genevieve Jordan 00:40:00
Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. I think that probably helps in giving people a bit of an idea of what they're in for. Another question. Was there a specific gap in your skills you felt when deciding on the MBA? Shaun, you might have spoken about this a little bit already, or was it more future-proofing yourself? Any thoughts on that? Was it interesting, a gap, or just thinking more long-term?
Shaun Spence 00:40:22
Well, certainly leadership gaps, as I said earlier. I look back on that time and I was very operational level. I wasn't able to get that helicopter view. I wasn't able to sort of separate myself from the operational part. So that was a really big one. But I think the other part for me was... um.
00:40:38
You know, actually, actually.
00:40:41
innovative side of it, I think you know. I think you sort of get, you know, when you you do your undergrad, that is, you know, a lot of your core business studies and and your management, all that kind of stuff. But I think, What it really gave me was this: how to actually think a little bit more innovatively and creatively. And that was what I really liked about the study was how to actually then apply those business models to. Validate that or to— to actually execute creativity is probably the way I try and say it. Like, it's you know, we can all come up with an idea in one way or another. What the MBA did was help me bridge that gap between here's an idea as to how we actually can then build a strategy and a purpose and a model to get to that innovation. So that was probably the other part that I maybe haven't touched on as much today is that.
00:41:22
And rather than your core sort of, you know, we sit down to a finance module and, you know, that in your undergrad, this was very much around how you actually take your role and your thinking to the next level and do that with actually analytics and models and those kind of things.
Genevieve Jordan 00:41:39
Yeah, fantastic. And thank you, because that's a really good segue to another question that we had, which I'm actually going to put to you, Deepak.
00:41:48
Would you recommend the RMIT or the RMIT Online MBA to an entrepreneur?
00:41:54
Amen. It can be around employability and performance, but what's the role of creativity in the program as well? Are you able to comment on that?
Deepak Sardana 00:42:02
Absolutely. I think creativity and innovation is central to it. And that's why we focus a lot of—uh— you know— a big part of our focus is on design thinking. I think that's the heart and soul, you know, if I may say. Uh, of our MBA program and we completely understand that. You know, creativity, innovation are—and it, it, it goes across not just the digital part of it, but across the board in different industries. And that is why the skill of design thinking is very important. How you empathize with the customers, how you build a new product using design thinking philosophy. I think that's very central to it. And of course, you know, uh, it plays a big role in our curricula within the MBA.
Genevieve Jordan 00:42:53
Excellent, yeah.
Shaun Spence 00:42:53
So just to add to that, I think too, and I probably framed it um more around communicating with boards and those types of things. I think, from an entrepreneur point of view, that that um knowledge of how to communicate with certain audiences is something that I sort of, you know, I take it from a funding point of view when you are talking to potential funders or potential business partners, those kind of things. Again, the drought actually framework that up and have models there to apply your learnings and apply your thinking to certain audiences and present in an efficient and effective way to those is another key learning I took from that. So certainly in those entrepreneurial conversations, like that, is really important aspects as well that I maybe didn't touch on as much.
Genevieve Jordan 00:43:31
Yeah, no, thanks for highlighting that. And I think that brings us back actually to one of your earlier points, Shaun, around personalisation and really understanding. Who you're speaking to for what purpose and how to tailor your approach accordingly, which is sort of key in all aspects of life, isn't it really?
00:43:50
Look, thank you both so much for sharing your thoughts today. It's been really terrific to hear. From you both from different perspectives actually about doing an MBA or being part of an RMIT online program. To those on the call, thank you for joining us. If you're interested in applying for the program, the details are all on our website. We do have, as we've mentioned today, the Master of Business Administration. If you're not sure and you think something shorter might suit you better initially, maybe doing a graduate certificate in business administration is a good starting point. And then, of course, you can use that for... credit in your MBA as well. So that's another option that I just sort of mentioned there. So feel free to jump onto our website to find out more, or of course you can contact us directly. And we have enrollment advisors who are able to talk with you about the whole process of applying, what you can expect as a student and so on. But thank you again, particularly to Shaun and Deepak for sharing your thoughts today, but also to everyone else who's joined today, shared questions, shared links and even just shared where you're coming from.
00:44:56
So it's great to hear from you all and great to be thinking about these.
00:45:01
Nutty little issues around leadership in modern organizations and how we can better our leadership skills.
00:45:08
Thank you all and I wish you all the best.
Deepak Sardana 00:45:10
Thank you, Genevieve.
00:45:12
Thank you. Thanks, Shaun.
Genevieve Jordan 00:45:14
Thanks, everyone.
Join us for an online MBA Fireside chat, featuring Shaun Spence, Director of Fundraising, for an honest conversation about leadership, progression and stepping into more strategic roles as your career grows. Shaun will share real-world perspectives from across his career, including how leadership expectations change over time, what hiring managers look for when promoting into senior roles, and how structured learning has supported his own progression and confidence in complex decision-making.
The discussion will explore:
We’ll close with a short conversation with MBA Program Manager Deepak, unpacking what you actually learn in an MBA and how studying with RMIT Online fits alongside full-time work.
You’ll also have the opportunity to ask questions live.
Join RMIT Online for a relaxed fireside chat with Shaun Spence, Director of Funding at Bendigo Health, hosted by MBA program manager Deepak Sardana.
HR, Talent Acquisition and L&D experts will get real about the leadership “hygiene” basics that matter most in today’s workplace.
With cyber security incidents costing Australian businesses an estimated $29 billion annually, the demand for skilled professionals has never been greater.
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RMIT University acknowledges the people of the Woi wurrung and Boon wurrung language groups of the eastern Kulin Nation on whose unceded lands we conduct the business of the University. RMIT University respectfully acknowledges their Ancestors and Elders, past and present. RMIT also acknowledges the Traditional Custodians and their Ancestors of the lands and waters across Australia where we conduct our business.
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