Anshu Arora 00:00:00
Thank you for everyone who's joining us today for Volume versus Value, the new brand challenge.
Anshu Arora 00:00:06
So my name is Anshu, I'm from RMIT Online. Before we begin, I'd like to acknowledge the people of the Woiwurrung and Boowurrung language groups of the Eastern Kulin Nations on whose unceded lands we gather today. I respectfully acknowledge their... ancestors and elders past, present and emerging. And I'd also like to acknowledge the traditional custodians and their ancestors of the lands and waters across Australia, where many of us may be joining us today as well.
Anshu Arora 00:00:32
So, as many of you are aware or probably experiencing, as marketers, we're now living in a world where brands are producing more content than ever. And there's a lot of pressure to publish content because we've got more channels, we've got different formats, there's a speed requirement, and also personalisation. So amidst all that kind of volume, there's probably a bigger question that's emerging for us, which is around... Creating more content, is that actually creating more connection? Or are we risking losing that very thing that makes brands distinctive in the first place? So today we'll explore that tension. Between that volume and the value, and how brands are scaling content without losing that identity, that creativity, and most importantly, that customer trust. We've got a wonderful panel and a wonderful group of voices to unpack that challenge with us today.
Anshu Arora 00:01:24
But before we jump into it, just a couple of really quick housekeeping notes from me. One, the session is being recorded and we'll share that with you afterwards. Two, we really would love this to be an interactive session. So please make sure you drop your questions into the chat. There's a really little nuance with Zoom. So just make sure it's to everyone so that the team and us, we can all see them. And I promise to leave some time at the end for some Q &A with our panel. And without further ado, I actually would like to hand over to each of them to introduce themselves and tell us a little bit about who they are and what they do. And I'm going to nominate my first panellist. And I think I'll go with Celeste. Do you want to kick off?
Celeste Healey 00:02:05
Yeah, absolutely. Hi, everyone. I am Celeste. I've been creating content for around five years, mainly on all platforms, but I also model and I'm currently writing a sitcom.
Celeste Healey 00:02:21
Yeah and I'm super excited to be here so thanks for having me fantastic thank you.
Keir Vaughan 00:02:26
Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Keir. I'm head of craft and design at Thinkabel. Thinkabel is an independent, integrated, creative company. We're based in Melbourne, Sydney, and New Zealand.
Anshu Arora 00:02:38
Fantastic.
Emily Rutherford 00:02:39
Emily, I hand over to you. Love it. Hi everyone. And sorry, my voice is a bit scratched today. I've got a bit of a cold. I have been in marketing for over 10 years now across industries, lifestyle, tech, and now most recently beauty at L'Oreal for the last five years. years. In my current role, I'm leading our e-commerce function and CRM functions for the luxury beauty division. So yeah, you will hear everything e-com, CRM, digital and brand from me today.
Emily Rutherford 00:03:11
Andy.
Andy Segal 00:03:13
Hi there. Yeah. I, uh, Andy, I've had over 20 years experience in advertising. As a creative copywriter working for agencies across Melbourne. And now I am a creative consultant and a brand writer, helping write the way for brands and avoid the ad and brand wrongs.
Anshu Arora 00:03:33
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, I'm going to jump straight into it. This first question is actually for all of you. So whoever wants to take it first.
Anshu Arora 00:03:41
It's around the fact that, you know, I mentioned it earlier, we're all publishing more than ever, there's more content that's being created. And there's this pressure that we have to create more content. But I guess, from your perspective, what... Why is that pressure? And I guess, is it actually working for us?
Anshu Arora 00:03:59
Who wants to kick that off? Kia, do you want to start that one?
Keir Vaughan 00:04:02
Yeah, sure. We're obviously consuming more and more content. We're obviously producing more and more content. That's why we're here today. So, poignant moment. Um, pressure is coming from, yeah, I think it's the democratization of being able to create content now. It's been building up, but obviously with AI and other tools, it's getting easier and easier, more efficient, faster. And more polished too. So definitely a prevalence from that side. But yeah, pressure comes from all sides. But also, I think we can just move faster now and create more nuanced content and more moments for different brands.
Keir Vaughan 00:04:43
There might be pressure, but there's also opportunity, I think, and more and more opportunity at more and more moments for brands.
Andy Segal 00:04:51
Yeah, I think there's a lot of pressures coming on, like for marketers. I mean, we're juggling and I speak to a lot of CMOs, who are juggling so many things at the moment. and they want to get it out, get things out at speed, and you can get them out at speed. I mean, you add to that the cost of living pressures that are coming on, and you want to get your brand out there. You want to be heard. So you can feel the pressures, but you've also got to understand and know what your resources are and what problems you can fix and what problems you can deal with and what the job at hand is for you. Um. So valuing all that pressure, you've got to remain calm and consistent, which can be hard.
Celeste Healey 00:05:31
Mmm.
Celeste Healey 00:05:33
I think that people want to see more and we want to consume more and there's pros and cons to that. But I think from a creative perspective, I've watched. People's platforms grow in the space of a year from posting seven times a day. So there's like pressures on definitely as a creator that I'm always. One step behind or I'm not doing enough. But it's about the quality of your work as well. And you can post seven times a day, but is actually any of it. Inspiring or do you believe in the brand? Or are you actually promoting what you want to promote and put out there because it is also out there forever?
Emily Rutherford 00:06:14
And I think, like, a challenge for us is also, like, the life cycle of this content. Celeste, as you would know, the life cycle is so short on these pieces, sorry, of content.
Emily Rutherford 00:06:26
What we're looking at as brands is like how we can actually increase the longevity of the content and creating platforms from these pieces of content that can be repurposed and recycled in new and dynamic ways with all of the new tools that are available to us to make sure that we're continuing to tell the same story using one platform.
Anshu Arora 00:06:47
And I guess, and maybe this one's for you, Kier, but in terms of when brands are producing so much and doing so much volume. How do you keep it feeling coherent and intentional and what are you seeing or what are they doing that others probably aren't doing to keep that consistency and that coherency?
Keir Vaughan 00:07:06
Yeah, um... The design principles and craft principles that we adhere to a lot are distinctiveness, consistency, and cohesiveness. That's not one thing, it's multiple things.
Keir Vaughan 00:07:18
So distinctiveness is that fame-building side of things. How do we make brand assets not only everywhere consistently, but work really hard for themselves. And then cohesiveness is a little harder. You've got to be really clear on the tone of brands.
Keir Vaughan 00:07:34
But also it all comes back to clear brand meanings for brands. So if we can go back to the brand meaning and the positioning of that brand and everybody's aligned on. What is the brand? What is the tone? What does it stand for? It's much easier to remain cohesive across everything that we do. and sometimes brands fall into that trap of either a I'm breaking the equity that I've built. Excuse me. um and b yeah not having that clear brand meaning behind the brand and why they're producing what they're producing Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:08:07
And I guess, Emily, I mean, you're obviously working at L'Oreal and, you know, there's lots of content being published through that particular brand in terms of volume. How do you, I guess, make sure what's going out still actually sounds like L'Oreal and that content isn't just kind of like ticking the box?
Emily Rutherford 00:08:22
Yeah, absolutely. For us, it's really embedded in the structural ways that L'Oreal brings our brands to life.
Emily Rutherford 00:08:30
Our core of everything we do is really embedding those brand codes into our workforce, into our collaborative network, like Q was saying, and making sure that everyone is super clear— not only on the brand guidelines, because I think sometimes we can get stuck on, oh, well, you know, this has to be left aligned or it has to be like this certain color.
Emily Rutherford 00:08:50
But really embedding, like, what our brands actually mean to— not only our team, but consumers. And the way that L'Oreal brings that to life is very dynamic.
Emily Rutherford 00:09:00
We have, you know, obviously our showcases of all of our new products for the year. But then those showcases are actually cascaded down not only to our leadership team and our local team, but also our beauty advisors in store. So every six months we have a roadshow and those beauty advisors actually attend those roadshows, which is a beautiful dinner and a big celebration of what the brand means. So we know that across the full funnel our advocates really understand the true essence of the brand. Um, it's also having a collaborative approach with our marketing teams. Obviously, brand is the constant, but culture is the variable. So being a global brand. We're constantly, you know, using our cultural variable here locally to relay, you know, those brand codes that are being cascaded from... global. Um, and I think also just to like reinforce what Kia was saying is having a really rigorous approach in terms of how we're briefing our agencies, how our approval processes are aligned, and then that kind of helps us make sure that everybody is singing from the same hymn book.
Andy Segal 00:10:08
I was just going to add to Emily talking about the brand guidelines and the old style of brand guidelines, which is the logo and two meals aligned here and here. And now we're changing the brand guidelines to be more about adding the belief systems, what your values are. Um, what the world is. What's your ecosystem and the world you live in? When the trend is on, or there's something that you think, 'Oh, yeah, let's jump on that.' You're like, 'Hang on a second.' Let's look at our belief. Let's look at our personality and worldview. No, no, we're not going to go to do that. So having guidelines that encompass that now are so important because that's what you're giving. To the different parties around in your, you know, to the PR or to your content creators. That's what we're giving now. So it doesn't get fragmented.
Anshu Arora 00:10:55
And I guess, I mean, Sorry.
Keir Vaughan 00:10:57
To add to that, too, I think traditionally brand guidelines came from 1950s, 60s, and 70s— literally applying the brand codes to things. And that was complex. Printing and other applications was really complex. But now we've come to a point where we can move so fast. We really need to understand, like Andy's saying, how to embody the brand to then utilize all of that toolkit.
Anshu Arora 00:11:23
And Andy, what separates the organisations that really understand their brand from the ones that are actually just doing some marketing? Do you think?
Andy Segal 00:11:31
Yeah, that's a really good question because, as I said before, marketing is really hard and sometimes, you know, things moving at fast pace and you're juggling so many different things. Emily would know, like you're probably speaking for her, juggling so many different things. But for me... What I've noticed when I've talked to the people, the ones that really understand the brand, they understand the value of your brand purpose, your mission, that higher brand strategy. What are the problems that we're solving out there? They're really consumer-centric and customer-focused. And they're like, what are our distinct assets? What are our worldviews? And the thing I noticed as well is it's really important is that when they understand the importance of brand, they become that brand champion. Because brand is something not just outwardly. It's something that internally can shape everyone. So when you're... going up the ladder and you're, um, influencing others and you're really championing what your mission is, what your purpose is, and when you're getting those guidelines cohesive, so then you can give it out to all these different channels, you become that champion.
Andy Segal 00:12:37
And I think it's the people who... They're not there to just not get fired. They're there to take their business and themselves further and even get fame. I think that's the difference.
Anshu Arora 00:12:47
Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:12:48
I think, I mean, Celeste, you're probably slightly different in terms of, you know, you've got your own voice to maintain while you're serving and working with different brand partners and working within the brief. How do you hold kind of that staying true to your voice at the same time without kind of eroding the other brand that you're representing?
Celeste Healey 00:13:07
Yeah, I think I listen to my community a lot and I think working with brands is awesome. I've worked with incredible brands, but also kind of pushing the boundaries a little bit with briefs to align with my community is what I tend to do with every single opportunity I'm given just because they want a product to sell. And my job is to do that usually in a creative way. But if it's not going to align with my community, align with... the feedback that I've received from previous work, because I've been doing this for a while, then I know that it's not worth.
Celeste Healey 00:13:45
So I'm really picky with who I work with, really picky with what my community wants to see, the responses that I get through each ad that I post or even just organic content.
Andy Segal 00:14:00
I think Celeste says community, because I've heard a lot of brand strategists now say they don't define a target audience by a person like, oh, you know, this is Celeste and she's X age and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But who is the community? What's the key to that? Your approach? Who is out there? And like, that's what brands are looking for. So, I mean, Celeste has a community, and then brands now are like, 'Well, what's our community?'
Anshu Arora 00:14:23
Yeah, and it's an interesting night.
Anshu Arora 00:14:26
Sorry, I'm trying not to be a marketer in this conversation and putting my own thoughts in. Emily, I'm going to hand it over to you.
Emily Rutherford 00:14:33
I think as brands as well, working with creators, we really had to adjust our mindset over the last few years. Like, when, you know, five years ago when we were briefing campaigns, it was like. Say this thing, you know, have this point, hold it in this way, make a showing, show you showing the logo to the front, et cetera, et cetera. But now what we really do see it to like. Confirms Celeste's point is like the content that performs the best for us is when we really trust our creators and I think that is like you know going back to like having global consistency for our brands, as long as our creators are briefed on, you know, what our brand stands for and what our brand meaning is, then we can really trust them to make sure that they're going to deliver our message in a way that is relevant to their audiences, creating brand relevancy for us, but also in a way that will perform.
Anshu Arora 00:15:24
And, I mean, I guess through that process when you are working with different creators and different communities, how does a brand make sure that they don't lose their own personality and their identity as they're going through that process? Andy, I think I might throw that one to you to start off with.
Andy Segal 00:15:37
Yeah, and that's a really good question. And I think, so, you know, if I was working with Celeste, I would... make sure that she understands what the brand is and what the brand stands for. And we take that time to chat it through. And I've worked with other... content creators as well. So they understand. You know, the campaign and. What the things are and what we like, and then also what we like about you know, what we like about Celeste, why we've chosen Celeste, you know, we love the sense of humour, we love, you know, what she does. And so... Then she gets an understanding of, oh, they've chosen me because of this or they want me because of that. So when we hand it over, there's a really clear understanding of what we appreciate about her and what we're expecting to see. And then she goes, 'Okay, I got it.
Anshu Arora 00:16:22
Yeah.' And so, how does that work for you, I guess, in terms of, you know, where do you see some of that tension come up and how do you navigate that?
Celeste Healey 00:16:31
Well, exactly what you just said, Andy, like if I join a briefing call and they are not familiar with my content, they're not familiar. The skits that I do or, because I understand, I'm a comedy creator, so I'm quite unique sometimes. But if I've joined a brief and they know nothing about what I do, it's quite disheartening and the work isn't going to be as incredible as it could be because I'm thinking, why did you pick me? Like, why is my community, someone, something you want to work with or? things like that. But, um, Yeah, did that answer your question?
Anshu Arora 00:17:04
Yeah, no, definitely. So that kind of has to work from both perspectives, right, in terms of the brand that is wanting the creator to represent and the creator that's representing that brand. There needs to be a really... nice cohesion around those two as well for it to be actually genuine in terms of the community that you're serving as well. That's fantastic. I might switch tacks a little bit because I'm really interested around this idea around that. That kind of effectiveness and crafts are at odd. And I know, Keir, from Thinkabout's perspective, you've really built something around that. And so when a client... talks about needing content like yesterday. How do you protect that kind of craft around that content without losing kind of the client or kind of losing the room through that process?
Keir Vaughan 00:17:51
Yeah, it's a really good question. So think about we practice measured magic. So that's the coming together of marketing science and hardcore creativity. So that's big for us intrinsically then linked. So effectiveness and craft.
Keir Vaughan 00:18:06
Craft is effectiveness. So it's embedded in everything we do. And that's really important. I think sometimes craft is looked at as part of a process or things need polishing at a point. But really, when you're embedded in your process and embed what you're doing, you should be able to move at speed.
Keir Vaughan 00:18:24
It's always harder. Things get faster. Expectations get quicker. Technology obviously supercharges everything now.
Keir Vaughan 00:18:33
But it is ways maintaining clarity around what you're producing, why you're producing it, and do we need to be creating more noise for the brand? Um, we can create more and more, but yeah, just clarity around that content that we're creating. I think. Yeah, fantastic.
Anshu Arora 00:18:53
And, Emily, just in terms of, I guess, when we talk about for someone, you know, you lead e-commerce and e-commerce experiences, how do you drive that balance between that revenue and kind of maintaining that premium brand experience online?
Emily Rutherford 00:19:08
Thank you. This is a constant consideration for us as luxury brands and I think what the most important thing is that you really need to be lined. as a brand, but also like with your commercial and leadership teams. So. When times get tough, you are all still really focused on the vision and the long-term health of your brand rather than, you know, saying yes to short-term revenue potentially at the expense of your brand equity. Um, what we focus on first and foremost is just nailing the fundamentals— the brilliant basics. It's boring, but it's super important. So making sure that your website is beautiful, making sure that your online experience is really seamless. You've got great UX. You've also got the hygiene factors sorted. So you've got fast delivery. You're on site. Search works. Then we also think about— our how we mirror our offline experience with our online experience. So, one of the key ways we do that is that we are actually having online beauty advisors. So, if you go onto longcom. com. au, yslbeauty.
Emily Rutherford 00:20:09
com. au, you will be able to talk to a real person who is an expert in those products and they'll be able to give you advice. So you will get the same standard advice online as well as on store. We also have things like scent finders, foundation, matching technology, virtual try-on, which are those like nice above and beyond things that you can really make sure that you're still getting that, you know, product exploration and product education that you would get. Offline but you can still have it online obviously just without the touch and feel element. And then there's also things like our loyalty programs, which we really use to like, you know, make sure that we're pushing customers through the funnel, but also making sure that we're loyalizing them at the right times. And. It's interesting because some of our most valuable customers are actually our online customers. Um, but we haven't—like one of the, you know, past 22s there is that they, you know, spend lots of money with us, but we don't actually deliver them that VIP experience.
Emily Rutherford 00:21:12
So what we've done over the years is actually made sure that we are offering them specific events, whether it's virtual online masterclasses or actually in-person experiences. One thing for Longcom that we do is we offer our top tier loyalty members a complimentary in-store facial.
Emily Rutherford 00:21:31
So they can still, you know, have what they would normally experience in store. But as an online consumer, we're just offering that to them in a slightly different context.
Anshu Arora 00:21:42
Yeah. And you talked about kind of brand experience and kind of that experience for all your customers. How do you then tailor that from a global perspective to like local markets? And how do you maintain that consistency of the brand? Because the experience that each market would want to experience, saying that so many times, is quite different and unique, right?
Emily Rutherford 00:22:02
Yes, so I think, like, at L'Oreal, we are a global beauty company, and I think that in many ways we are lucky as a local market because we get all of the insights from all of our global websites and we do have a standardised, you know, kind of like website template that is fed through from global. And so what we are able to do is pick and choose what we activate when. Um, there is also like, obviously, we have, um, some local projects. So for us, things like signature packaging, which is something that, you know, if you can order it online, it means it's delivered in a beautiful little box and it's wrapped very prettily, that is available on some of our brands and something that we are looking to continue to elevate. And that is more of a local activation. But in terms of brand expression, we are lucky in the sense that we do have that standardised throughout our global markets. One thing that is localized is our offers, though, and how we speak to our consumers. So offers that may resonate in, you know, another market that is grouped within our zone, like Indonesia or Singapore or something, won't resonate here locally.
Emily Rutherford 00:23:09
So I think that's where, really, when we're speaking to our consumers, designing offers and launches again, making sure that they are culturally relevant. So for example, for YSL, we had a big laneway activation at the start of the year. I want to... YSL's brand platforms is music. So we collaborated with Laneway, which was really fab. But we also made sure that that experience was reflected online. We had a bespoke gift that was available online, which was limited edition merchandise. So we were still making sure that that thread is woven through every single touch point.
Anshu Arora 00:23:48
Yeah, fantastic. And I guess that brings me to my next point around kind of brand integrity and, you know, in terms of, I guess, from your point of view, Keir, where... from where you sit. What's potentially impacting brand integrity? Is there a pressure to produce more different tools, different offers? You know, how do you do that in terms of in this particular world today?
Keir Vaughan 00:24:13
Yeah, how do we continue to move fast and retain that brand integrity? I think it still comes back to the fact that people are really quick to break brands. Um, Emily mentioned before, you know, you have a lot of equity that's been built in the brands. That equity takes a long, long time and a huge, huge cost to build that equity. And too fast, I think people come in and want to change and quickly. Um, that's when the brand can get broken. So I think half of the brand integrity comes from just maintaining that consistency and cohesiveness and understanding of the brands.
Keir Vaughan 00:24:51
And I think, yeah, that's a big, big part of how do you maintain that brand integrity that comes all the way back to perspective.
Andy Segal 00:25:00
I was going to add to Kia saying that brands move fast now, but people move just as fast. It's so easy to lose people. If you do something wrong, if you're a beauty brand and you give a cheap-looking tote bag, you know people get really angry Online, on Reddit, wherever it is. For a moment.
Andy Segal 00:25:17
But if you do it repeatedly, it can yeah, it can cause havoc on your brand sometimes.
Emily Rutherford 00:25:22
Yeah, one of our missions, and we've... from like we're kind of looking at like how we restructure our company. On a global level but also locally, is how we can equip ourselves to move at the speed of culture. Which is exactly what you're saying, Andy. It's like, how do we make sure all of our teams are enabled and have the processes in place? So when Celeste is going viral on... TikTok or Instagram, we can, you know, in like, we can turn something around in 24, 48 hours that is culturally relevant, super fun, but still brand aligned.
Anshu Arora 00:25:58
And as a content creator in terms of your own brand integrity, Celeste, when a brand brief comes in that you feel is like pulling you away from like what your audience really responds to, how do you handle that conversation?
Celeste Healey 00:26:12
I think it's the power of also having a great agent if you are at that level. Like my agent has. knows me better than I know myself in a way, but also.
Celeste Healey 00:26:24
It's saying no. For the sake of fostering that community, nurturing it, keeping it growing, because Honestly, like, yeah, I've had to say no quite a lot last year and then going into this year being full time in this space. And it hurts when it comes in, but. Your community is what? We'll get you. more brand alignment and yet closing a door can always open. Up five more. And you want to be.
Celeste Healey 00:26:52
with what you're saying yes to. There's too many content creators in the world now, but it's like, why do you stand out? Why? Why should people follow you? It's, yeah, values, going back to your core values.
Anshu Arora 00:27:06
Fantastic. And I can't believe we've made it 28 minutes into the call and we haven't spoken about AI. So I'm going to jump right into it because I guess some of the things we talked about. Kind of publishing a lot of content and producing more and more content. I mean, but do consumers actually care if we've used AR to create that content or if it resonates or speaks to them? Andy, what do you think, Andy?
Andy Segal 00:27:28
Well, I was going to start with people don't care about brands. And I heard this stat that, if, I think it was from Havis, if 75% of brands disappeared overnight, no one would actually care. So... What I think about people care if it resonates exactly, but also they care about if they do— i like it. They really want to like something because there's so much out there. So likeability is comes first and then memorability. So you want to be liked but you also want to be remembered, because otherwise you're just, I think someone once called it, a bland scape. You know, you just blend into the bland scape otherwise. And so you want to get. You know? There's so much AI slop out there. So you don't want to just— but no one cares. Like I remember. Just to give an example, Telstra did, I think it was like 20, 15 second ads. and their beautiful stop motion.
Andy Segal 00:28:19
But do they care if that was AI generated or stop motion? They were funny, well told, and they were well executed. And that's what people lean into.
Anshu Arora 00:28:27
Hmm. But as marketers, I mean, how do we create that authenticity, right? If we're using AI and everyone's using AI and we're all doing the same thing and then eventually we all start to sound the same.
Anshu Arora 00:28:37
And we're saying that consumers will resonate regardless of it, as long as it resonates with them. But from a brand perspective, how do you keep true to yourself in terms of the authenticity that you provide to that customer?
Andy Segal 00:28:50
Yeah, and I think it's the way you use, and Keir could probably talk to this as well as everyone else, like the way you use AI now. So you can use AI, and I think Abel did a... menu log where they used AI to change a song. um but make it localized for a thousand different uh I'm just making that number up, suburbs or something. And you go. That's a great way to use AI. You've got to use it. There's so many ways to use AI if you get caught up. In um amplifying something, if you don't have a good brand story to start with, if you don't have your values and your positioning down pat, your distinct assets, then what you're amplifying is a nothingness. But if you can use it to amplify what's distinct about you, if you know your distinct assets, because AI is getting better and better all the time.
Andy Segal 00:29:37
Otherwise, yes, like you say, if you don't use it well, it's just going to end up amplifying exactly the sameness.
Keir Vaughan 00:29:45
And I think in that menu log case or any other case, again, you've got to be really clear on what the brand means. But also you've got to be a slave to the idea. So AI in that case and other cases shouldn't be the idea. It should be the output or the outcome. It's kind of really clear. idea at the center of it that made that impactful.
Anshu Arora 00:30:09
Yeah, fantastic. There's a question here from one of our audiences around, you know, we've talked about guidelines and approvals and how that's scaling with AI.
Anshu Arora 00:30:19
To, one, not really follow the guidelines and, two, the volume of creatives is high and approval takes time. So I think there's a tension here between just producing lots of stuff, but actually then going through some of those approvals and making sure that it's resonating and aligned to the brand. That seems to be taking a lot of time.
SPEAKER_5 00:30:42
And I'm.
Anshu Arora 00:30:43
I think that might have been more of a statement than a question. But yeah, I mean, is there any— I mean, how would you approach that in terms of how do you keep up with the creation versus the approvals in terms of what's going out to market for your brand?
Andy Segal 00:30:57
Yeah. I've noticed Australia is actually a lot slower on approvals than, say, like in the US. They seem to be a lot quicker on approvals and jumping onto, like Emily was talking about, jumping onto the speed. Of culture and jumping to it because I think and I think, maybe that is because their brand guidelines and their mission has been well known by all the creators and by the in-house team itself. Whereas here, we're sort of like— if we want to jump on a trend, then suddenly there's all these layers that we have to go through and, by the time you've got the tick of approval, it's kind of over.
Keir Vaughan 00:31:34
I think it's building trust too with your clients. You know, the best work comes from that trust that's been built. So we can move as fast as clients move with us. And that can be really, really quick because we're all on the same page and we all trust each other. Again, really pushing that idea at the centre.
Anshu Arora 00:31:52
So trust is a big part of it. Hmm.
Anshu Arora 00:31:56
And there's actually a really lovely one here around storytelling. So, you know, brand storytelling has always been integral. Do you think audience expectations around story content have changed as volume increases? Just because we're consuming more quickly as consumers, do we consume less critically?
Anshu Arora 00:32:14
Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:32:17
What do you reckon? From your perspective, Celeste, what do you think?
Celeste Healey 00:32:20
Yeah, I was about to say.
Celeste Healey 00:32:23
Storytelling is everything. Like I, I think an ad, like we skip a lot, but if there's a great story that incorporates a brand and why it's meaningful to them or. Yeah, storytelling is the future. It's the reason why your platform will grow. It's personable. It's vulnerable. And more people are open to that. But it's also... Scary for people creating the content like me. Thank you.
Andy Segal 00:32:51
We also call it sort of world building, like what's your world that you live in? What's the story of your entire world? And when you know your world, it's almost, you know, you look at movies, they have a world. World, they build a world. And then brands need to do that. They need to know the world that they live in and the stories that are in their world. So then you can move fast and have the right stories. You tell the right story.
Emily Rutherford 00:33:12
Yeah, 100%. And I think if you have the right story, then really all storytelling is also iterative. So if the brand is super clear on their mission, their goals, their values, then all of those iterations, you know, they will make sense and they will be consistent.
Emily Rutherford 00:33:30
Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:33:32
Um. So I'm just having a look at all these great questions that are coming through from the audience. I'm going to try and get through as many as we can today.
Anshu Arora 00:33:41
In terms of, I guess, how... There's one here around, that's it, here we go. How would you approach the challenge of brand consistency versus innovation for one-person marketing team? Where is the focus best spent to raise brand awareness?
Anshu Arora 00:34:00
Who wants to take that one?
Emily Rutherford 00:34:02
I'm going to have a go at it.
Emily Rutherford 00:34:04
I think really just focusing on what you're like. Key territory or like key identity is. Like, if you just become obsessed with that one platform or that one thing that you want to really, you like, what do you want your brand to be famous for? I think once you're clear on what you want your brand to be famous for, then everything that you do can stem from that. And then, that even though you might not have as much reach as, say, a global brand. Everyone who is interacting with your brand understands your story.
Andy Segal 00:34:34
Hmm. I was going to add to that, like every brand, like what you do next, it's kind of like, it depends on that brand. So if you outline what's the jobs we have at hand, like what do I need to do now? Like, so now I need to build awareness. Down the track, innovation—yes, maybe somewhere, but you've just got to focus on and then knowing what resources you have in your marketing team and at your disposal. What one of those jobs can I get done fast? What can I do now?
Andy Segal 00:35:02
Because yeah, it's not a, I don't think there's a cookie-cutter answer like Emily was saying as well.
Anshu Arora 00:35:07
Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:35:09
And I guess with AI, in terms of especially for new marketers, how do you balance expectations from a business with kind of output that's possible without the use of AI?
Anshu Arora 00:35:23
For newer marketers, how do you balance business expectations with output that's possible without the use of AI?
Anshu Arora 00:35:31
So, not using AI in your marketing, how do you kind of balance, I guess, with AI? And it's actually one of the things that we were discussing yesterday in our debate is that it creates this expectation of doing more and creating more. And so, if you are not using AI to do that and you're kind of going back to your grassroots around creating new, and I'm sorry for the person who asked this question and I'm paraphrasing it. How do you kind of balance that expectations of actually volume versus... versus creativity?
Keir Vaughan 00:36:00
I think it comes back to putting value, if I'm understanding it correctly, putting a high value in volume.
Keir Vaughan 00:36:07
Volume shouldn't be the highest value. If we keep putting content out and things out for brands constantly and constantly, people will begin to get fatigued by constantly seeing them and start to shut down if we're not resonating with them, if we're not really engaging with them. Probably comes back to storytelling too and what do I want to engage with with these brands, not just seeing them constantly.
Keir Vaughan 00:36:31
If I'm understanding that correctly. Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:36:34
And so how do we, I mean, I guess the follow-on from that would be, you know, how do most brands get that kind of volume versus value balance right?
Andy Segal 00:36:44
I was going to just add to it saying that some clients that I work with don't want volume anymore. They just want value. I don't want to be out everywhere. So yeah, I can go on to cut a ball or something and get my soft drink put into the hands of a thousand different people and sent out. But no, but that's just going to end you up skipped.
Andy Segal 00:37:02
So people are like, I want one thing and I want it done well. And I really, because that's what my community wants. So they're... People are opting out of volume. Especially those that don't use it. And there's a lot. I have a lot of clients that don't want to use AI or don't use it because of that murky legal issue, who owns it. Who doesn't own it? So a lot of major corporations.
Andy Segal 00:37:25
Just won't use AI.
Anshu Arora 00:37:27
Mmm.
Anshu Arora 00:37:29
And is there a format or a channel where, I guess, you think quality still is consistently winning over that quantity piece?
Andy Segal 00:37:37
Everywhere.
Andy Segal 00:37:39
I would love to say.
Andy Segal 00:37:41
But quality always wins anywhere. And especially the more slop that's put out, quality stands out.
Emily Rutherford 00:37:49
Yeah.
Andy Segal 00:37:49
Yeah.
Emily Rutherford 00:37:50
I think it's also about brand meaning like if the content is quality and it has high brand meaning then it's going to get higher engagement and it's going to perform better whereas like if we're just pumping out like for us as well, like even you think about like where you're placing your content on which platforms. If we're posting our global content on TikTok, for example, it's just going to get skipped. There's no point in us pumping, you know, huge volumes of global content on there. We're much better to post. like one really, you know, engaging, creative. piece of creative content than, you know, 100 pieces of global content.
SPEAKER_5 00:38:26
Hmm.
SPEAKER_5 00:38:28
And Q, are you going to add something to that?
Keir Vaughan 00:38:30
I just 100% agree. Come back to clear brand meaning and make it engaging. It doesn't matter how much you're producing.
Anshu Arora 00:38:37
Okay, I'm going to ask one last question and this is around, you know, because we'll go back to the original, like we're creating more content, there's a lot of speed around the content that we're creating. What's the competitive advantage? How do brands define a competitive advantage from your perspective?
Andy Segal 00:38:55
The— oh, sorry, I'll just chime in. I mean, you're always, as a brand, your competitive advantage is what's your differentiation.
Andy Segal 00:39:03
When you enter a category, you think, okay, what are all the norms in that category? How might I be different in that category? And it could even mean going into a... Brand category with into a category with other brands that you're not supposed to be in.
Andy Segal 00:39:17
But your competitive advantage, to come back to it, is how am I solving the problems of my community, of these people? And so if you put the people first, then that's your competitive advantage.
Keir Vaughan 00:39:29
Yeah, we do a lot of work around exactly what Andy's saying. Context is everything, but the category that you live in. It's not only what makes you stand out in that category, but what also cues that category for you too. You've got to balance both of those things. If you feel like you don't or you shouldn't fit the category, people will switch off equally. Um, as opposed to yeah, just adhering purely to the category, people switch off just as much.
SPEAKER_5 00:39:59
Blaise, Emily, any final thoughts from either of you?
Celeste Healey 00:40:04
I don't think it's really my space of expertise. But I'm absorbing it all.
Emily Rutherford 00:40:10
Yeah, I think that Andy just nailed it on the head with differentiation. It's like you just need to be clear on, like, what value you're bringing to the consumer and how you're delivering it.
Anshu Arora 00:40:21
Yeah.
Anshu Arora 00:40:23
Fantastic. That time has absolutely flown by. That was such a great conversation. Big thank you to all of you for taking the time out and providing such insights to our audience. There are a couple of things that I'm taking away.
Anshu Arora 00:40:38
Emily, I love the brand is a constant and culture is a variable. I think that's such a great way to put it in terms of staying true to your identity as a brand, but being really aware of the cultural, I guess, environment and ecosystem that you're engaging in. The people, it always comes back to the people in your community, right? So I think, Celeste, you were talking about making sure that you're connecting with brands and your community with those brands that are actually really aligned. And making sure that you're solving clear problems as a brand for them as well. And good storytelling.
Anshu Arora 00:41:12
I think that's the key thing. The good storytelling is so critical, regardless of the type of content that you're creating. Yes, volume and we're consuming more, but it's that good storytelling that's going to get us to cut through, as we're looking at what that means for brands. So, again, thank you so much. That was an absolutely amazing conversation.
Anshu Arora 00:41:30
And thank you, everyone else, for taking some time out of your lunch today. Before we wrap, if you'd like to continue building your skills, please check out our upcoming events and courses at RMIT Online. It's all on our website. We're also giving away five free Future Skills short courses to attendees. So make sure you're sharing your key takeaways from the sessions on social media. Make sure you're also tagging us so we can see your post. We've got two more events to go with our future skills. First, tomorrow we're hosting the Climbing the AI Ladder. And then Friday, we've got Inside a Cyber Breach, How Attacks Really Unfold. Sounds like a bit of a suspenseful one, so that'll be good. And as I mentioned earlier, today's recording, we will record it and we'll send it out to you post the sessions. But thank you, everyone, for your time. Hope you enjoy the rest of your day and we hope to see you soon.
